To get annoyed that some mumsnetters think dogs should be perfect all the time

[lesley33]

I try and be a responsible dog owner. I call my dog back if he is near anyone who looks uncomfortable with him, I move him over to the side of the path to let joggers by and clear up dog mess.

But some posters on here seem to think that dogs should alwa\ys be perfectly behaved, never run up to strangers and never bark at people.

Dogs are not robots. However much you train them no dog will always behave 100% perfectly all the time. Some dogs are harder to train. For example, dogs that are really really dim or dogs that have a very nervy and neurotic personality.

We all accept that DCs will not always behave in public. I think most dogs generally behave well most of the time - but it is unrealistic to expect them never to misbehave. So AIBU?

Well over the years my children have definately suffered more injury at the hands of other peoples children at parks than they ever have from any dogs.

It wasn't a dog that jumped on my DD and started slamming her head against the chute or a dog that went up and slapped my disabled son on the head and when he didn't cry went back to do it again...I could go on an on..all these children off the leash, unsupervised and with very poor recall.

I have yet to meet any of these unruly face ripping child eating dogs.

I don't think dogs should be perfect. Of course they are animals and as such are never going to be 100% predictable.

However I think most people don't bother to train them - and carry on training them throughout their lives - to be as close to 100% as possible.

Just a quick point with regards to talk of dogs on leads all the time - my dogs are on a lead at all times. They are a medium sized extremely high energy working breed (Siberian huskies) who require ridiculous amounts of exercise. The reasons they can't be let off the lead are neatly outlined here, if anyone is interested, but the short answer is that, as a breed, they cannot ever be taught a reliable recall. Just doesn't happen with this kind of dog.

It is actually not that difficult to sufficiently exercise and stimulate a dog, even a high energy working dog, on a lead. Nobody ever said that lead can't be 50ft or even 100ft long, used in a suitable location where it won't cause obstruction to anyone else (if more people were open to the use of long lines in training a lot of 'NT' dogs would have better recall, IMHO). I walk for around 3 hours a day, every day, rain or shine; even if the dogs have to stay on long lines/flexi leads/waist belt and bungee leads the sheer distance we cover is enough to meet their needs.

At this time of year they are training in harness (Cani-X and scootering/bikejoring/sledding) three or four times a week, easily running 20k+ a week while dragging a heavy weight. This fulfills their urges as a sled dog. With any other dog you would look at their working roots and perhaps become involved in herding, flyball, agility, tracking, competitive obedience, 'pet' gundog type training, retrieval, anything that exhausts your dog mentally as well as physically. Mine do agility out of the racing season - not a typical husky pursuit but it keeps them busy in mind and body, plus I get the use of the secure training facility to let them have the odd free run. Any of these things will tire a dog out more than an aimless bimble off the lead.

I am not saying that all dogs should be on leads all of the time, just that anyone who is in any doubt as to their dog's behaviour or recall should make the effort to a) train them otherwise and b) keep them on a lead (whilst providing sufficient exercise alternatives) until such a time as they are reliable.

8Ace - I however HAVE. My neighbour two doors down had a dog that was the sweetest, kindest dog you ever saw. Until one sunny day it turned round and decided to sink it's teeth into her toddlers face. The toddler had been across the room at the time, playing with a baby toy that barked like a dog. Her toddler needed 37 stitches. The dog was an elderly Lab - that up until that point had been the most well behaved dog you had ever seen. She had had the dog since before she had had her dc. The toddler wasn't her first dc, either - so the dog had been around children for over 5 years at that point.

You cannot, just cannot imply that a dog is in the same category as a human being. No matter how nasty those children's behaviours towards your dc were - they are NOT capable of ripping your dc's face to the point of them needing stitches. I admit that your dc have obviously been on the receiving end of violence from other dc in a park - but that is NOT the subject of this thread. I am sympathetic to that, as I have two dc with disabilities too, but the issue at hand is how responsible DOG OWNERS should be wrt leads in public areas. If you want to start a thread about how badly behaved CHILDREN are in parks, and the lack of supervision from their parents, then feel free, but I feel that bringing those things into a discussion about responsible pet ownership is sidestepping the actual issue being discussed here.

Oh dear lord, stop with the dog threads. Please. Lesley, you love your dog that is clear. You sound like a very good dog owner but you will never change the minds of the MN masses. Nor are they a normal representation of the wider general public, ime.

Most people either like or are able to ignore dogs. I rarely come accross people in rl who actively despise dogs the way MNetters do. I also wonder where in the hell they live where they see all these untrained, picnic stealing, jumping up dogs. I rarely encounter them. I can count on one hand the number of times I've been jumped at or had problems with a strange dog and this is as someone who lives withing feet of a well used for dog walking park and walks there or other 'doggy' places at least three times daily.

Yes dogs should be trained as much as is possible and controlled when they cannot be trained for whatever reason. No dog will ever be perfect, there is always the risk that one day they will just choose not to listen for whatever reason. It would be nice if people could understand that, but they won't.

But toboldlygo - if your dogs are on a 50ft or 100ft leash - how on earth can you stop them from jumping up at someone 50ft / 100ft down the road, or round a corner? IMO a 50ft / 100ft leash is giving no more control than a dog being unleashed. If your dog cannot be taught recall, and is on a 50ft / 100ft leash - how do you stop it from jumping up at a child walking down the road eating a sandwich, 100ft away from you?

I WON'T understand that because IMO it is the DOG OWNER'S RESPONSIBILITY to understand that I do not EVER want ANY dog, regardless of size / cuteness / good behaviour in previous circumstances jumping up at my dc when I have chosen to take my dc to either a play park with swings and slides (not a suitable environment for an unleashed dog IMO), or to a wooded area that specifies dogs should be kept on their leads.

I know LOTS of people in RL who feel the same way as me - and a lot of them are DOG OWNERS. RESPONSIBLE ONES.

Hunty, once a breed like a Husky is running the only thing in the world that insterests them is running further and faster. They would not even 'see' a child with sandwhich.

I can cycle past other dogs with my lead aggressive terrier and he barely bats an eyelid. He's far too focused on running, me and the bike.

Also bike joring etc. tends not to be done in children's play parks.

Most people either like or are able to ignore dogs. I rarely come accross people in rl who actively despise dogs the way MNetters do.

the most (?) annoying part of these threads is the wilfull ignorance. there are a great many posts on this thread, for example, from dog owners and dog lovers, which disagree with the OP. But rather than take any of that on board, the OP and allies persist in repeating the notion that only "dog haters" could be troubled by irresponsible dog ownership.

Christ, if I put the pup on a 50ft leash he'd have me tethered to everything within range. Untangling us both would take years

I don't 'despise dogs'. I have kept dogs in the past. I just feel that dog owners need to be more thoughtful to the people around tham that may NOT be dog-lovers. No-one HAS to love dogs, any more than I have to love Brussels sprouts (I don't, they are the devil's bogeys), or any more than dog owners have to love children that come and poke their dogs. My opinion is no less valid just because I think dogs should be on a leash except in prescribed places that can be avoided if you don't want to come across unleashed dogs...

I have much more trouble with the people who are so astutely pro-dog that they swear at everyone on threads about angry dogs, who dares to say that they find angry dogs upsetting

and swear even more on threads about people trying to rehome dogs

and are just generally aggressive and nasty. I wonder what their dogs are like sometimes.

I really admire people who can manage a long line with a dog. When I tried it, I ended up spending most of my time untangling it from things, or unwrapping it from round my legs, or trying desperately not to grab hold of the portion that hadn't been dragged through dog shit :(

I thought it would be a piece of cake; I'm pretty competent at lungeing/long-reining horses.

Dogs behave NOTHING like horses when they're on a long line

*trying desperately not to grab hold of the portion that HAD been dragged through dog shit.

Because I'm not daft enough to use such a long lead (or even a flexi lead) anywhere near anybody else, a road, or even a public footpath? I did specify 'a suitable location'.

Maybe I'm lucky in that I live rurally but there's plenty of open access land here that means I never have to set foot in a public park. I also have the permission of a local landowner to exercise my dogs in two of his fields when there are not livestock there - it's part of a bridleway route, so there is public access over the fields, but he's happy for me to linger on the fields for a bit with the dogs on the big leads so long as I pick up after them. The other place I would use them is the beach, which we only go to out of season (and obviously one that permits dogs).

They do actually have about a 99% recall on a long line, they're not stupid, they know I can reel them in if needed and so are resigned to coming back. Husky logic for you.

Dooin - but what if this was the once in 5 years occurence that they DID see, and grab the sandwich - to the dog owner, it is once in 5 years, a minor occurence. To someone like my DS2, that once is enough to leave a child that was slightly wary of dogs beforehand absolutley terrified for the next 3 years - to the point that if he sees an unleashed dog now - he will visibly shake and be frozen to the spot. When we were walking down the street and he saw a large unleashed dog - he was so terrified that he wet himself, at almost 8 years old. That is just so unnecessary - the THREAT of an unleashed dog jumping up at him now is enough to terrify him to that point. Why walk your dog unleashed on a public street when 10 minutes further up the road is an enclosed field where dogs can be allowed off their leash?

Where in my comment did I advocate irresponsible dog ownership? I do believe I said "dogs should be trained as much as is possible and controlled when they cannot be trained for whatever reason" this translates to "dogs should be trained as much as is possible and controlled when they cannot be trained for whatever reason" not "Let your dog do as it pleases and sod every one else".

No matter how good the training mistakes will happen. Particularly in younger years. These 'mistakes' should be worked on and retrained and the dog should be under complete control (with the use of a training line if neccessary) while that training is taking place.

And yes. I will stand by my comment that I in rl do not come accross many people who despise dogs the way MNetters do. This is fact. I do not meet many dog haters or encounter many, if any, hysterical children on my walks. Nor am I harrassed on a regular basis by strange dogs. I did not state that other MNetters felt the same.

YANBU OP.

I don't have dogs myself, but worked with them a lot as a kid when an elderly relative was a dog fosterer and trainer of rescue dogs ready to be rehomed. It is hard work and there are stages of training when they might get things wrong - it's not their fault, they are just learning.

Depending on what the dog finds difficult in order to deal with the problem there will be moments when you have to let them off lead even when you're not 100% about their behaviour, as it's the only way to get them to the point that they can be 99% relied on.

I wish more Husky owners realised how unwise it is to let them offlead.

I used to meet one a couple of years ago - I think he was about 7 months old and his owners let him offlead all the time on the fields. I did get chatting to them at one point, and brought up the "Do you think it's wise to let him off?" thing but of course they knew better - "Oh yes, we've trained him..." but over the next couple of months when I saw them from a distance, he was clearly losing interest in them, and you could just see his eyes were tending to wander.... he'd still come back MOST of the time when they called (eventually) but I'd lay money that he probably ended up buggering off at one point. Hopefully they found him and keep him onlead now...

My dogs are fucking marvellous. They're extremely bloody gentle, well behaved, well trained, controlled in public and leashed according to law and bye-laws and absolutely fucking lovely, thank you very much, JaneBirkin.

And now, after saying thank you to Dooin and Catgirl for their wise words, I'm off to check up on the dog which I found a rescue place for on Sunday, as a result of a MNer posting in the Doghouse saying she wanted rid of her. I've also got to call the (now ex) owner regarding paperwork. I'll come back to you to tell you if SHE has any issues about how I dealt with her. She didn't during our hour + long phone conversation on Sunday night.

You what?

'I have much more trouble with the people who are so astutely pro-dog that they swear at everyone on threads about angry dogs, who dares to say that they find angry dogs upsetting

and swear even more on threads about people trying to rehome dogs

and are just generally aggressive and nasty. I wonder what their dogs are like sometimes.' I do believe DBF was answering this comment, which I would presume was aimed at her Jane?

Was it? I can't remember who I meant, it was on a thread the other day. Oh it was someone called Gallowees or something.

And I stand by it. Shall I go and have a look?

and why all the aggro here, at me? Do you see what I mean? I only said I didn't like people being sweary and aggressive.

Here you go.

GalloweesG Mon 31-Oct-11 16:04:20
Some people are utter twats, that poor dog.

GalloweesG Mon 31-Oct-11 18:39:08
Why is no one she knows kicking her in the cunt having serious words with her?

That sort of thing.

Was this on the thread where the woman had gone through no less than 5 dogs in one year? That would, imo, anger the most saintly of dog lovers.