To get annoyed that some mumsnetters think dogs should be perfect all the time

[lesley33]

I try and be a responsible dog owner. I call my dog back if he is near anyone who looks uncomfortable with him, I move him over to the side of the path to let joggers by and clear up dog mess.

But some posters on here seem to think that dogs should alwa\ys be perfectly behaved, never run up to strangers and never bark at people.

Dogs are not robots. However much you train them no dog will always behave 100% perfectly all the time. Some dogs are harder to train. For example, dogs that are really really dim or dogs that have a very nervy and neurotic personality.

We all accept that DCs will not always behave in public. I think most dogs generally behave well most of the time - but it is unrealistic to expect them never to misbehave. So AIBU?

You want other dogs to stop approaching and frightening your dog.
Non dog owners don't want your dog approaching/ frightening them.

Sorry! "pat" not "oat"!

I think my dog should be perfect at all times. Unfortunately he, little sod that he is, disagrees.

I don't mind other dogs approaching mine. She's an old lady with a big bark. They soon learn!

lesley33

"My point is that I don't think any dog will never ever misbehave. It may only happen once every 5 years though."

"My dog does recall except ONE time when there was a half eaten sausage oon the floor that he ate and then came to me. So you really think I should keep him on a lead for ever because of that one incident that did not involve anyone else. Thats just ridiculous."

I was actually agreeing with your first statement. Of course dogs misbehave. It may only be grabbing a sausage off the floor once every five years. It might only be savaging a child to death once every five years. My point is that as a responsible dog owner, no matter how well trained I think my dog is, I cannot predict her behaviour.

The dog we had as a child had never bitten anyone, ever. Docile as you like (and ancient by the time she died when I was 11). When I was about 9 we were out with her on a lead and a horrible child ran over her tail on a bike on purpose (afghan hound, long tail, sitting down) - she reacted very aggressively and had she not been on a lead the child would have got more than a grazed shin from panicking and falling off the bike. I could not have predicted that someone would do something purposefully nasty to her but they did - but if she hadn't been on a lead and blood had been split, it would have been our fault as her owners that we put her at risk in that way and we would have been devastated.

The one time my friends bosses dog misbehaved, it ripped half her face off! She will carry the all to visible scars forever.

All the reasons you list, are very valid reasons why some people don't like dogs!!
Fact is, when you choose to have a dog, keeping it on a lead in public has to be one if the things you accept about life with that dog, at least if you live in a heavily populated area.

If your dog is likely to run at people then keep it on a lead.

Elaine, yes, SN, of a sort, applies to dogs too. Some can suffer compulsive tendencies for example - I know one who is obsessed with trying to chase swallows as they fly above him. Some have far more complex "SN" - no, they can't be compared to a human's, before anyone jumps down my throat but they exist nonetheless.

It's not particularly relevant to the conversation but it is important to me to correct you on that. :)

FWIW I agree with the OP that there is a higher percentage of dislike/fear/lack of knowledge of dogs, their breeds and their behaviours seen on MN IMHO - and it IS only that, my opinion - than I see elsewhere (and that's disregarding fellow rescue and animal rights types, for whom that goes without saying of course).

Whilst I appreciate fear and phobia I do get a bit cross on misinformation stated as fact and have read a lot of it on here, such as "Staffies jaws lock" or "Bull breeds are dangerous around children" and that, I think, is what gets the genuine dog lovers backs up. I agree too that dogs should be well controlled, on lead where it is stated that they must be, recalled when there are children/disabled/frail etc people in the vicinity and so on and I do these things with my own dogs.

A bit of give and take is needed though. My dog did not deserve to have a small child come up and poke him (literally) in the eye last week, causing him pain and injury, when we were on the far side of a grass verge with him and one of my other dogs, in the sit command, having politely moved there so that the child and his mother could walk along the pavement without feeling intimidated by 2 large dogs. Nor did I deserve to be aggressively shouted at to fuck off back down the circa 25 foot wide footpath by a parent when my extremely well behaved Shep had been recalled to me well in advance as I saw the family approaching, came to me immediately, as he always does, sat immediately, was leaded up immediately and was taken to the very side of the footpath whilst we quietly and inoffensively waited for the family to pass.

I just think there should be an acknowledgement that because a dog misbehaves once, assuming its not serious, then this doesn't automatically mean that the owner is lazy and just can not be bothered training their dog.

For example I walk an old ladies dog every week along a path near her home, where you get a few joggers. He has always ignored joggers in the past. Then about a month ago he ran up to a jogger getting in her way. I don't know why he suddenly did this, I apologised - she glared at me - and i put him on the lead. Now every time I see a jogger approaching I put him on the lead.

But this one incident did not mean that I was lazy and didn't care.

And I hate on threads like this how dog owners like myself will be talking about small incidents, whereas people arguing against will always talk about dogs attacking and biting. I'm not talking about incidents like that.

You clearly aren't reading all the replies..I have a dog yet cannot support you in any of your posts !

Sorry lesley33 - did not realise you were clairvoyant. Seems you can predict if and when someone is going to provoke your dog (agree with poster above who dislikes the number of small children whose parents will let them run over and approach and poke your dog) as well as when your dog is going to be triggered to do something they have never done before and therefore your dog can be off lead whenever you think appropriate.

I don't think a dog owner whose dog misbehaves once when off the lead in a public place is lazy or can't be bothered about training their dog. I think it's more likely that they're smug and indulgent towards their dog in such a way that their dog's value to them as a pet is more important than the dog's safety or life. Despair when they declare themselves animal lovers as well.

I suppose I do also think they are lazy in the sense that if they have to take their dog off the lead to exercise them in a public populated place then I think well why can't they make the effort to do the 40 min round trip walk to the nearest weald to really properly exercise their dog like we do?

Me too! topknob Op wants to divide thread into nasty anti-doggy people and lovely dog-owners and I think there more than just you and I as dogowners disagreeing

I can't stand dogs but understand a lot of people love them.

Keep them on a lead if you must take them out in public and don't expect everyone to like them just because you do.

Easy.

Keeping on a lead when not in an area where there is no requirement and it is reasonable to do so is not just unnecessary, it can be detrimental to the dog's welfare and to his ability to learn how to socialise with other dogs and how to behave properly with humans, Shelly. It can cause fear related conditions, including fear aggression, and that's the last thing anyone wants.

Dogs are animals.
Children are humans.

When my DD misbehaves in public, it normally involves her wanting something, and me saying no. Nobody is hurt or attacked in the process.

It's a pity we can't necessarily say the same of those humans when they become older, isn't it, MrBlooms?

Unfortunately we can't predict or account for the behaviour of either dogs or humans. We just have less tendency to demand that a human is leashed and so on lest they behave inappropriately.

No creature is perfect... we all just have to do our best.

MyDS was bitten by a dog on a lead when he was 8, we walked passed it on a pavement in a deserted suburban street. I was there - he did absolutely nothing to antagonise it, but the dog's owner kept insisting it wasn't the dog's fault.

("Poor thing - she's a rescue dog!")

My DS is now very phobic about dogs - he has ASD which makes it harder for him to cope with this particular anxiety, although he says he "likes some dogs - just not ones that jump up at him"..I suppose that makes him culpable? Complicit in his vulnerability somehow? I fully expect the dog-lovers will insist it must be some peculiar ASD-stylee body-language which provoked that pooch into attacking him, but whatever. We're used to that argument. It's what school tells us too, whenever DS gets his head stuffed down the bog or comes home with his clothes torn.

Lots of points there, Lapsed.

No, of course no sensible dog lover would say, as you are alleging, that your child was in the least culpable for the incident.

The owner is a prat for many reasons, not least that they are doing dog welfare and rescue no favours by blaming the behaviour on the fact that the dog is a rescued one.

WRT your son's school, I sympathise with all my heart. Been there, been told that. If your son is being bullied may I suggest that you contact the schools and advice charity for bullied children, Red Balloon Learner Centres? My DD attended one of their schools as a result of severe bullying but they don't JUST offer education... they provide fantastic advice and support for the whole family too.

Also, raise hell with the school. Put in a formal complaint and request all your sons records from both the school and the LA under the Data Protection Act (apply to both, seperately). Don't let them fob you off with an offer to view them under supervision, you have a RIGHT to a hard copy to keep and it can prove most informative and useful in getting help and support. If you find anything which you feel has broken disability or education law, lodge a formal complaint with the Local Government Ombudsman. Keep all copies of correspondance, email is best for that, do your best not to engage in phone or face to face meetings but get it all in writing and if you MUST attend a meeting, take an independent witness, take notes and take a dictaphone in your handbag.

(Can you tell I've been there before!).

PS Sorry Lapsed, of you have already done/know of these things.

See, I kind of agree with the OP here, because I have beagles, and their recall is far from great BUT oldboy is always always on the lead (and I have had much grief from fellow dog- owners for that.sigh) while witchy dog has NO interest in people, just scents.

If we are going through the woods in a country park on a rainy day, I love to let her off, as her real joy in life is sniffing out trails and she can't do that on the lead. She will ignore most people she sees, even if they try to pet her. Unfortunately she is also quite food driven, and lots of fellow-dog walkers have treats. And much as I've tried to beg with them not to, they will insist on giving her a treat. So now if she sees someone coming towards her, and they put their hand in their pocket, she thinks she is getting a treat and will run towards them. And nothing I say will get her back. So she rarely gets off the lead nowadays .

I try to avoid the public bits of anywhere- they are never walked on the pavements- I drive then to the park, and don't let her off until we are away deep in the woods, and call her if we meet anyone.

I have to admit, it does kind of hack me off when we dog walkers are out in the roughs day in, day out, through rain and snow, then suddenly it is summer. And one day a family will decide to take a walk through that erstwhile muddy wood, and I am supposed to know that on that one day they will be there and keep my dog on a lead all the time, just in case ONE day they want to walk there, just on the off-chance that she might run up to them, tail wagging, and her small, tail-wagging presence will scar them for life.

On the other hand, having kept both dog on a lead, children are allowed to come up and prod them/ run at them wildly...

In conclusion, I DO keep my dogs on the lead 99% of the time- to their detriment, and out of respect for the people we might one day meet in the back of beyond. But it does sting a little.

This really super simple IMO.

It is your dog and therefore your problem.

Don't make it mine, or anyone else's. Keep it under control and pick up its shit.

Really not that complicated, I know plenty of people with dogs who manage this. So if you can't (no excuses) then you are doing it wrong.

"To get annoyed that some mumsnetters think dogs should be perfect all the time"

i think the problem is with dog owners who think that their dogs are perfect all the time. or that their itsy-bitsy "indiscretions" ought to be overlooked because OMG it's a dog!

YABVVU. Three months back, during our daily walk in the park, my DS was barked at menancingly by a really big dog not on a leash. DS started screaming and the owner reassured us that the dog was really friendly and had never hurt a fly so far.

We must've walked for a few yards when the dog charged at us, snatched the sandwich from DS's hand and tripped him over, all the while barking in a very very ferocious manner.

DS fell head first on the concrete path and injured himself as the owner ran after the dog. I was too stunned to run after the dog owner and complain.

But my DS has now developed a phobia of dogs and we have almost stopped going to the park.

All dog owners must keep their dogs on leash at all times in a public park. There is absolutely no excuse!

"why can't they make the effort to do the 40 min round trip walk to the nearest weald"

When I walk the old ladys dog i take it to the canal by car - it takes me 40-45 minutes to do this and the walk. Usually pretty quiet, except on a glorious day when it can be busy. I would have to drive very far to get a totally deserted place.

My very old dog can't actually walk that far now,without a rest. I am not driving for maybe an hour round trip for a walk that takes 15 minutes twice a day. And sometimes he can't even manage that before getting too tired.