To get annoyed that some mumsnetters think dogs should be perfect all the time

[lesley33]

I try and be a responsible dog owner. I call my dog back if he is near anyone who looks uncomfortable with him, I move him over to the side of the path to let joggers by and clear up dog mess.

But some posters on here seem to think that dogs should alwa\ys be perfectly behaved, never run up to strangers and never bark at people.

Dogs are not robots. However much you train them no dog will always behave 100% perfectly all the time. Some dogs are harder to train. For example, dogs that are really really dim or dogs that have a very nervy and neurotic personality.

We all accept that DCs will not always behave in public. I think most dogs generally behave well most of the time - but it is unrealistic to expect them never to misbehave. So AIBU?

Yes. But most people managed to contain their anger and express it perfectly well without using language like 'kick her in the cunt'.

In that case, apologies, and sincere ones at that, JaneBirkin.

Not that I don't think that GalloweesG has a point, mind you.

Still think Dooin is right about the fact that we dog owners, who are out and about far more than the complainants without dogs, see very little of this picnic snatching, muddy pawed jumping. And that MN is NOT representative of RL in many ways, not least for its antipathy towards dogs.

Agree too with Catgirl. I will walk my dogs unleashed and under control where they are allowed to be. If you don't like them, please choose somewhere else to take your family. I do not like other people's children which is fine, but it would be very unreasonable to take my picnic into the playground of the park and then complain about the dirty, noisy children, wouldn't it?

But dooin - to people like me, even one 'mistake' from a dog is one too many as far as I am concerned. If the dog is in a public area, keep it leashed, then there isn't the possibility of even one 'mistake' that could affect someone else.

DS2 may not be common in his hysterical reaction - but it was CAUSED by an irresponsible dog owner. Before the incident, he just kept a tighter hold on my hand when there is an unleashed dog. His problem arose PURELY because of a selfish, irresponsible dog owner not keeping their dog leashed in an area where they were meant to.

Maybe you live in an area where there aren't many irresponsible dog owners. I live in an area where most dog owners don't even pick up their dog shit. I have to teach my dc to play in and out the dusty bluebells - or as I end up screeching every time I leave the door "MIND THE DOGGY DO-DO". If the majority of dog owners here can't even pick up their dog-shit, how responsible do you expect they are?

TeWiHara - So you let your dogs off the lead, in public, even though you aren't 100% sure (because you can't EVER BE 100% sure) of their behaviour. And you think that is 'responsible' because 'Depending on what the dog finds difficult in order to deal with the problem there will be moments when you have to let them off lead even when you're not 100% about their behaviour, as it's the only way to get them to the point that they can be 99% relied on.'

So YOU feel that it is an 'acceptable' risk that something might happen - but YOU have been allowed that choice. The person walking down the street who MAY be on the receiving end of your dog's 1% of bad behaviour whilst they are still 'learning' has NOT HAD ANY CHOICE in that. And therein lies the problem - by unleashing your dog in a public area, you are taking the choice to be unmolested by dogs AWAY from the other people there. I do NOT feel that that is an 'acceptable' risk.

Hunty if it would cause you that much problem would it be really difficult for you to stay away from areas where dogs are allowed off leash?

There are many, many multitudes of such places, ime. If someone is breaking law and allowing their dog off leash in such places, by all means report them to the park warden/ council/other appropriate authority. It irks me also when people allow their dogs off leash in on leash places but it is not something I encounter often. In fact I can only think of one time I have ever seen it. Perhaps your town is different to mine and has more eejits and less law-abiding citizens. In which case, you have my full sympathy. You home town must truly dire if it can compete with mine on crime and the amount of citizens it holds who feel they are above the law.

I am not fond of children apart from my own and those of close family members. I do not go to soft play areas and complain about the noise or stickiness. I avoid such places so as not to adversely affect my mental health.

Thanks DBF and I know you do good work.

So YOU feel that it is an 'acceptable' risk that something might happen - but YOU have been allowed that choice. The person walking down the street who MAY be on the receiving end of your learner driver son's 1% of bad behaviour whilst they are still 'learning' has NOT HAD ANY CHOICE in that....I do NOT feel that that is an 'acceptable' risk.

Please don't allow your children to learn to drive cars on the public highway. I do NOT feel that that is an "acceptable" risk.

Risk happens everywhere Hunty.

Thank YOU JaneBirkin, for your generosity of spirit in the face of my attitude. :)

Erm... what? I said I don't have dogs.

I used to help a relative training dogs.

It's complicated, there are certain situations, certain things you can't train for without taking a certain amount of risk. Obviously in those moments you will take them somewhere where there aren't likely to be many other people/animals around. But this being a smallish country, it's totally impossible to absolutely guarantee that.

I think you are being hysterical, Hunty.

I've certainly met badly behaved dogs, but I think they were the exception now, and I didn't notice the good ones.

These days I always notice dogs, because I am trying to teach toddler sons to talk, and they can nearly say dog. So we do lots of pointing and "look! It's a dog!"

Over the last six months, the vast majority just sauntered quietly past. There has only been one exception to that, of a very cute friendly puppy.

We wandered through the city centre, past a man sitting on a bench, chatting to a friend, with his puppy on an extend-able lead. Puppy came up and pulled himself up on the buggy and stuck his face in. Buggy's contents were surprised and absolutely delighted. On a more serious note, I don't think the owner noticed what his puppy was doing at any point. But that was one owner.

It really depends where you live.

I once lived somewhere where there were lots of German Shepherds. None particularly trained. For some reason, they were all called Sasha or Prince, too.

Still feel wary of any German Shepherd not attached to a police officer.

I agree scaryjessie. The really badly behaved dogs tend to be the ones on the end of a thugs hand and the thug encourages them to be vicious.

The only other example I can really think of was 1 very posh lady who as her large dog jumped all over my old lab making him cry out in fear, insisted that the dogs were just playingw hen I pointed out my dog was scared. I scowled at her and said my dog is NOT playing, he is scared and physically pushed her dog away.

I can think of examples where dogs have not obeyed an owner who is trying to make them obey. For example, the very red faced embarassed owner of a dog that would not leave my dog alone and kept wanting to mount him. He had to be physically dragged away.

I feel about dogs as I feel about children. As long as the dog owner/parent is trying to make their dog/child behave, I'm pretty forgiving. Obviously this includes muzzling an aggressive dog and only letting a dog off leash when appropriate.

Although there was the time I had the old ladys dog on a leash as it sniffed up to another dog - not on a leash. The owner came and pulled their dog away and glared at me. I didn't know why until my DP pointed out that my dog had been licking the other dogs genitals - I thought he was just sniffing around, like dogs do!

So the owner probably thought I was an irresponsible owner!

And German Shepherds used to be the dog of choice for thugs at one time. I too remember a lot of them in late 70s/early 80's that were untrained or encouraged to be vicious.

Having a dog is not a right. If you don't have the space, energy and finances to give them a quality life, then you shouldn't have them. In public places dogs should be on leads.

Spent some time around farms, and having seen the level of activity the dogs, both working and non-working, did in a day, and then the interaction between the dogs, it just seems almost impossible to me to keep an average sized dog alone in a normal, suburban house with a little garden and still give it the best possible quality of life, by giving it a pat and walking it twice a day.

Those are the ones, Lesley.

My mother still says, "bloody alsations! Should be banned".

Hmm, I see the opposite where I live. The 'thugs' are the ones with a gentle staffies or a scruffy lurcher slowly ambling after them ignoring anything and everything that crosses their path as they're the ones who take their dogs everywhere and as such the dogs are very highly socialised and generally lovely.

The drug dealers down the road from us have three GSDs. All recall perfectly. All ignore passers by. One used to rest his head on dd2's lap while she was in her buggy and let her gently lift his ear so she could whisper "I lub oo" to him The only thing I could complain about is they do let them wander in front of their house and on the green opposite without a leash however they recall them instantly if they see anyone but me and a few others (who have expressedly stated that we don't mind the dogs being loose near us) approaching. The dogs have been trained to bark at passers by in the window. I presume this is in an attempt to stop irrate customers putting through their windows, which seems to be a regular occurance, so clearly the dogs are not a deterent [needs to move emoticon]

Although, one of them is called Sascha

It's normally the wobbly on her feet Gran or the harrassed mum of three who has the 'problem' dogs and they're normally Spaniels of some description and remain leashed, harnessed and halti'd up where neccessary.

I have to admit, I haven't seen a vicious German Shepherd around here for years. Or even a bored, under-exercised Sasha.

(Nor has my mother! Although the town centre is apparently "full of illegal pit-bulls".)

We have to share our public spaces with all sorts of things that we don't like/ are nervous of. Smokers, cars, drunks etc. It's the big wide world out there. You have to learn to deal with it.

I think dogs should remain on leash where the rules say they should. No exceptions. And I actually think more parks should be dog-leash zones.

As a dog owner I wouldn't dream of disobeying.

I want my dog to be as little trouble to others as possible (I feel the same about my DC) but if her very existence offends/terrifies then I'm not sure what I can do about that, because I will continue to walk her everyday, off lead when she is ready.

OMG not this again!

Dogs are unpredictable (and sometimes come to 'say hello'), people are unpredictable (and sometimes do stupid dangerous things), children are unpredictable (and sometimes make a hellish racket that is inconvenient for others) cars are unpredictable (sometimes cause horrific accidents), weather is unpredictable (sometime you get drenched) Goodness me, ban the lot!!! Learn to live with it.

If you have a phobia about dogs - get it sorted - that's your problem, not a responsible dog owner's.

Well I must admit to wondering about all these DC who are supposedly terrified of dogs.
Surely, the parents know they won't be able to avoid dogs so they're going to need to deal with it by other means. You can rail against dog owners all you like, but dogs are here to stay.

If a child became very fearful of cars folowing say, a crash, what would you do? You know you can't avoid them and you certainly can't ensure that every car owner will be responsible. Surely you teach the child rather than trying to change the environment?

tulipgrower - I agree that dogs on farms have a better quality of life. But I do think if you choose your dog carefully, then you can give it enough exercise outside of a farm. I got my lab as an old dog and he couldn't manage very long walks from the beginning. The old ladies dog I walk once a week doesn't get enough exercise (he is walked other days) though, but it would be possible as he is only a small dog.

But some dogs like collies probably are unsuitable outside of a farm environment or a very dedicated owner.

But too many people get dogs without researching their needs first.

betterwhenthesunshines - I totally agree with you.

YABU - my 3yo absolutely hates dogs now after 2 recent experiences where a dog came out of nowhere and licked her all over the face. She screamed, both times the owners insisted they were 'only playing' and 'wouldn't hurt a fly' and didn't apologies.

How would you feel if an animal bigger than you (a horse? A lion?) suddenly ran at you and licked your face? Dog owners need to realise how intimidating dogs can be to small children and watch what they are doing- if you haven't trained them to come when you call then they shouldn't be off the lead.

My horse does run at me. And he licks my face.

I admit I would be bloody surprised if a lion did it though. Unless I was in the African bush but at that point I think I would have to accept some responsbility for being there in the first place.

cheese if the dogs ran at your DC in areas where they should have been on a leash then you have every right to be furious.

However, if you were somewhere where dogs DON'T have to be on a lead then you need to accept this might happen and avoid such places if your DD has a fear of dogs (or at least until you can help her to overcome that).

Either way the owners should have apologised and been more careful.