Can abuse ever be a child's fault?

[MrsHuxtable]

I have a thread on relationships about my mother but things have come to a head and I want some quick replies.

Basically, my mum hit me a lot when I was a child (not just a slap, but properly with a hover pipe etc) and also abused me emotionally. She's visiting us rigth now and she kept being all negative about me and during the fight I told her how her abuse has damged me and is still influencing my life.

She then went on to say that firstly she hadn't abused me and my memory was wrong. She then admitted to the abuse but said it was my fault because I was provoking her and was already bad as a 2year old.

She is now feeling sorry for herself and packing her stuff. I don't know what to do. Will I just let her leave?

Can abuse ever be a child's fault? How horrible would I have had to be for this to happen to me?

2 year old cannot be bad.
They can do things that adults find annoying and frustrating.
They are NOT bad

2 year olds may do thing that the adult percieves and nasty and button pushing. That is because the adult is placing adult emotions and abilities onto a 2 year old.

This is one of the reasons children get abused in the first place. Parents who state 'the little fucker was winding me up. He KNOWs I am tired' when they are talking about an 18 mth old.

They are wrong.

Reading through this I can see my step mother. I'm due to spend the weekend with her in two weeks. Goodness I feel woefully unprepared.

This sounds incredibly painful, and I really feel for you. As everyone has said, child abuse is never the fault of the child - how awful for you that all your mother's unhealed pain was directed at you. That your mother could treat you so cruelly at such a young age is evidence of her own deep trauma, and is unequivocally not your fault or responsibility. That you are still being wounded by her denials and emotional manipulation is terrible. If you have the strength, let her go - but I know it will be hard. Thoughts and prayers with you.

OMG, let her walk out that door and when she has time to think about her comments and actions to you, you can maybe work on repairing your relationship.
Abuse is NEVER a childs fault and do not let her make you believe it was yours.

OP, hope you're coping all right.
As others have said, your DH really needs to be on your side, which does not necessarily mean always playing the peacemaker. Please make him read about narcissistic mothers and dysfunctional families too.
I too have an unsuccessful narcissist mother: everything is about her, but she's not very good at getting other people to dance to her tune, so she doesn't have many victims. Doesn't stop her trying, though.
It was really big of you to allow her to stay?it was your choice and you are in control of the situation. Well done, and don't back down to her self-pity. She still owes you an apology.

A new day, my mum's still playing the victim. The role of her lifetime. She should get an Oscar really.

We still haven't exchanged a word. I came out of the bedroom last night for dinner and this morning, she left the house to go to the shops before I was up. No idea when she will be back. DH said, she still has the beaten puppy face on.

I have checked out that page about narccicistic mothers. It lists 24 traits and at least 18 are spot on with my mother, so I'm not sure if that means she "qualifies" or not. I did, however, notice that my grandmother (my mum's mum) fits just as many if not more of the criteria. She has been perfectly lovely to me and always helped my mum out but from the stories I get to her, it sounds as if she was a narccicistic mother to her children. Maybe that's why my mum is the way she is. I still think she should take responsibility for her own actions, grow up and get some help.

At the same time I'm wavering. I feel like I was harsh on her and wonder if I maybe really was a horrible child. After all, she says that other people told her I was badly behaved. I was never in trouble in school or anywhere else though, so I'm not sure.

I did swear at her when we had fights but she did the same. Always calling me names and I do remember thinking that if she can do it, I can do it too.

When I asked my mum yesterday to apologise, she wanted me to apologise for not helping out more at home when I was a teenager. I know I didn't help her but to be honest, she shouted as soon as she came in the door and I had no choice but to be at home as little as possible. It was always tense as I didn't ever know what would set her off next, so I could never ever relax or feel properly safe in my home.

24hours to go before she leaves.

Oh, and Dh also comes from an abusive background in my opinion, so maybe it's true that he's conditioned in a way where he feels he has to keep the peace etc...

What really strikes me is how my mother insists I can't speak to my dad or sisters or friends about my feelings because it violates her privacy. I feel like I have the right to talk about it to whoever I want to because it is also MY life and if she didn't do anything wrong, she doesn't need to be worried about what I might say.

Don't waver. It's hard not to. But don't.
She's playing you, it's all she knows how to do.

"she shouted as soon as she came in the door and I had no choice but to be at home as little as possible. It was always tense as I didn't ever know what would set her off next, so I could never ever relax or feel properly safe in my home.
"...my mother insists I can't speak to my dad or sisters or friends about my feelings"
Abuse, abuse, abuse.
She's never going to admit she was wrong. That does not mean that you are!
You're doing really well. You could call a truce. But you have not done anything to apologise for.

I think that you need to rise above it all because you are obviously not up to just cutting her out. I wouldn't go apologising for anything or shouldering any blame. She is never going to admit that she was in the wrong so, if you want to keep the contact, I would just tell her that it was water under the bridge and that as adults you need to enter a new phase and that you are not going to get side tracked into old patterns of behaviour.

She's going soon, when she leaves cut contact.

No child deserves abuse. A child/teen that swears at their parent in a blazing row - well, is this perhaps because this is the behaviour they are being taught?? Your mother probably only told everyone how she struggled with you, how much hard work you were, etc etc and didn't tell them any of the nice things. All two year olds are hard work, it isnt called the terrible twos for no reason! I think you are right in that she felt resentful of your father leaving her and took it out on you. It still doesn't make it right.

She doesn't respect your privacy, your feelings, your house (announcing a visit from overseas without asking is not respectful), your right to have a relationship with your siblings. She is selfish, manipulative and generally a negative influence in your life that you do not need.

So you think your gran was horrid to our mum and nice to you? Could this be because she wanted to have a good relationship with you so as to prove something to her DD (your mum)? Sounds very similar to what your mum does by siding with your DH and sympathising with him, trying to divide and conquer and 'prove' she is right. Can you imagine her doing this with your child? Belittling you as a parent like she belittles you as a wife? Trying to win over your child and turn your child against you? She is not an influence you need around a small innocent child.

Talking to your midwife won't mean a red mark against you as a parent - it shows you want to be prepared emotionally for the birth of your first precious child and that is a positive thing. Social services aren't going to be beating down your door because you want some counselling about your bad childhood.

The Toxic Parent book is very very good, but very hard reading emotionally in my opinion. Do read it though as it is very useful and will help you strengthen your resolve rather than weaken and give her validation that you were in the wrong when you weren't.

Sorry to hear about your cat BTW, what a hard week you are having?

Does she jet offf tomorrow?? Count down the hours.

When you have this baby you will have a whole new realisation of how your mother has been. A child in a loving and healthy home cannot be 'horrible'.

Hold out. Don't apologise.

YOU ARE NOT TO BLAME. Your mother is creating the situation, she is still pulling your strings and you are letting her.

Anything that comes out of your mother's mouth is going to be a lie, or a twisted version of the truth. Of course she's going to tell you that other people thought you were bad too - how else can she reinforce her own bizarre beliefs? She is Making It Up. She is making sure that you see yourself through her own eyes by lying to you that everyone else sees you the same way - classic emotional abuse.

YES she is narcissistic and yes there is every likelihood that her mother may have been the same and it contributed to the way she is - but (and this is Very Important) - she didn't have to be. YOU aren't - YOU have chosen to go a different route - she could have done the same but chose to copy her mother's abusive behaviour.

Please stop concerning yourself over your manipulative mother's welfare - just imagine how gleefully she will be rubbing her hands over your distress - she has Got You again. Don't give her the satisfaction, please.

And your DH does sound as though he is another pleaser - he needs to learn to support you in standing up to your mother, not trying to placate both sides.

I've said it before on this thread - there is a REASON why your mother has no one else - it's because she has been EVIL to everyone else she knows as well. She will continue to be evil to you, and doubtless your baby too - stop the cycle now. She isn't going to change at this stage in the game.

I hear what you're saying exotic and I'd really like to do that but it would entail her stopping her emotional abuse now, which she is not doing. I doubt she will stop in the near future as the constant criticism of me and my sisters/dad is so engrained into her. I can work on myself to not let it affect me but I don't have the strength for that right now either.

I have only managed to create this sisterly-relationship with my half-sisters in the last 6 years. It was hard work from my side because I had always been made to believe that they were somehow worth less because they are from my dad's second marriage and the children of the woman who supposedly split up my dad's marriage. I know now that this is not true but it was a long road so I'm very protective of this bond.

And as for you talking to your family about her being a violation of her privacy - purleese!! This is narcissism for sure - again, everything is about her, her importance etc. I doubt they give a shit about her except in regards to how she affects you and your wellbeing - but she sees you as a non-person, apart from how you relate to her. You have every right to speak to the rest of your family about YOUR feelings, regardless of who is at the bottom of them and she has NO RIGHT (nor sane reason) to stop you.

I would get through the next 24 hours and then write her a letter. Tell her that you would like to keep the contact, but that as a child you were not to blame and you are not going to take the blame. That you have a good relationship with your father and half siblings and free and open discussion.
That you will have to agree to disagree over the past and draw a line under it. You will be pleased to see her but that you are not going to continually go over old ground.
After that treat her like a DC, ignore the sulks, tantrums etc and just say 'sorry mother-I told you in the letter that I had drawn the line-you need to move on'.

I can't desribe how much it helps to read all your comments. So many people can't be wrong. it's just a little hard to get my head around that my own mother can be so manipulative. I always knew she wasn't behaving in a normal way. I'd really like to be able to read her mind and follow her process of thought.

And I can think of more and more examples of her narcissistic behaviour. I hope I won't bore you with this but I think it's a relevant example.

My mum always blames my dad for not having been there for important events etc but thinking back, I seethat she never actually gave him a chance. For example, where I'm from, a lot of kids go to ballroom dance classes when they are 14. The course then finishes with a big ball where the parents are invited and the bis thing is the father-daughter dance. Now my mum refused to have my dad there because she didn't want to have to see him and therefore have her night spoilt but instead insisted on inviting her occasional hot shot solicitor fuck budy (sorry) to impress the other parents. So I did the father-daughter dance with him and at the end of the night was dropped of at my granny's so my mum could go home and have sex with said guy.

That's narcissistic, isn't it? She managed to make my night about herself...

exotic So do I interrupt her every single time she says something horrible then?

When is she leaving?

You only have her word for it that others said you were badly behaved and what they actually did was probably agree with her to shut her up. You said yourself that your school reports don't back her up and neither do your memories, which are not made up.

I tried for years to find out what was wrong with my mother, why she treated me the way she did, why she was so negative about me and my siblings and why she seemed to revel in crisis so much so that she would set us all against each other just to create one. For instance she loved to tell my sister, who was struggling to get pregnant, how we had told everyone but her (which wasn't true) and how she was always the last to know. What mother would hurt one child just to get at another?

I've given up trying to understand. I pity her, I know she is sick, but I am not a qualified psych and if she refuses to even acknowledge that she has a problem then what am I to do? Lay myself open for more abuse?

It was one particular incident that broke the straw with me, the ultimate betrayal which I won't go into detail with but basically she created a crisis around me and turned many of my siblings against me by telling untruths and getting many many people hurt in the process. I realised then that she was also beginning to control her grandchildren - my nieces and I was determined that my own children would not live in her shadow.

I have tried time and again. I have written letters, sent emails, invited her to call and speak to the kids but she never does, instead she tells others how I have turned my children against her and keep her from them. I now will not have anything more to do with her.

Yes it hurts. These people are not just any old people, they are our mothers. We know that it should not be this way. I grieve for the relationship that never was. But I know that none of this was my fault. I was not the ugly teenager she told me I was, I was never in their way as I spent most of my life cooped up in my room, I didn't cost her the money she says I did as I even gave her my dole money. She nearly took from me my self worth, my confidence, my identity.

You can pity her and feel sorry for her but that will not change who she is. Whilst you allow her to abuse you she will do. Playing the victim is so very easy to do and allows for maximum sympathy - it's a wonder your mother hasn't told you that you've made her ill, perhaps that will come. In the meantime you have a child growing inside you who needs you. You owe it to your child and to your partner to concentrate all your energies on the life you have now.

You have not chosen to cast her out, she has chosen not to be part of your life by continually abusing you and criticising you. You can always leave the door open and say she is free to see you so long as she treats you with the respect you deserve. If she can't do that then she can take her abuse and destructive energies elsewhere. If you let her, she will drag you down to her level. The reason you don't feel you have the strength to deal with this is because she has taken it all. Don't waste any more on her.

Once you have written the letter and told her that you are drawing a line under it and you will have to agree to disagree I would just interrupt her each time with 'sorry-I said that we would have to agree to disagree' and change the subject.
Be quite plain in the letter that you were not to blame (everyone on here has told you this, I haven't read it very carefully, but I don't recall anyone telling you that a 2 year can cause an adult to be violent)and that you will only ever discuss it in the future if she is willing to change her views, but you don't want 'woe is me I was a lovely person turned bad by a 2yr old!'(in different words of course!)

you're not going to change her, you're not going to ever have the relationship with her that you crave

just let her go, in every sense

you can protect your new family from her, and you must

That's the cat she swiped the hot water bottle from, wasn't it? Can't get much lower than that.

As usual Thumbwitch has said what I would have said if she hadn't said it first. Either your mother was lying to you when she said other people commented on your badness, or what she was telling them to get them to make that comment wasn't strictly true. Like, if she said you had taken £5 from her purse, a friend would say "gosh that's terrible". She would then come home and tell you that her friend said you were terrible. Whether she had in fact asked you to get the money out for her, or you'd taken it in order to buy some milk and told her about it afterwards, or whether you hadn't laid a finger on her purse in your life, it wouldn't change the story. Her friend said you were terrible, therefore it must be true.

Don't expect normal logic from someone with that kind of twisted thinking.

You did not deserve what happened to you.

Abuse is abuse - it is never justified.

I was hit as a child. I know it was my parents losing control. Their fault. Not mine.

No 'look what you made me do' is ever justified. It is further abuse.

~~hugs~~

WhollyGhost is sadly completely correct. You will never ever have the relationship with your mother that you crave and that is very sad, and may be difficult for you to come to terms with.

The question is, what kind of a relationship do you want to have with her now and in the future? The answer may be no relationship at all. That would be fine.

I suspect that if you want to continue a relationship with her you don't want her to treat you badly, so you need to engage with her like a responsible grown up. If she refuses to engage with you in the same way, tell her that you are not prepared to see her unless she can behave like an adult and treat you with respect. Challenge any behaviour that makes you feel bad immediately and politely and firmly ask her to stop. Ask her to leave if that is what you want her to do.

Harping on negatively about your behaviour as a child and how this has affected her doesn't count as treating you with respect. Suggest to her that if this is such a big problem in her life even now then she needs to have counselling and it would probably be best for you both not to see each other until she has been in counselling for at least 6 months.

MrsHux, All posters here have said you are not to blame. Yet still you have doubts.

Do you truly think that only your mother is correct and that all the comments on mumsnet from all the different people posting are all wrong?