about SIL and DS1's Bris (circumcision) ?

[imlikeaironingboard]

I'm Jewish (Liberal) and DH counts himself as secular Jewish (as does all of his family).
His DBro (my BIL) married out - not a 'big' thing with them due to the whole non practicing/secular thing.

I'm due to give birth to DS1 (DC2) in a week.

They do not have children and it is only DH and BIL as siblings. our DC1 is a DD.

Both DH and BIL are circumcised.

She told us tonight that she would not be coming to DS1 Bris. The idea of doing that 'disgusts' her.

AIBU to be really upset and to think that she should have realised that marrying into a jewish family secular or not would mean that these sort of things would happen?

This has really really upset me - I have never got a hint of her feeling like this before.

To be fair OP if you invited me to a mutilation ceremony I would be deeply offended.

Wow.

OP i address this to you and not some of the very rude down right horrible posts some people have seen fit to post.
I am not jewish but DH is a liberal jew (from your posts slightly less observant than yourself i guess) Our DCs are being raised Jewish and our DS's are/will be circumcised.
I never had any of the strong feelings that some people on here have about circumcision. But marrying DH made me realise how dear millions of jews hold the practice.
Now we didn't have anyone say they wouldn't come to bris because of there views so can't really give my view on that.

But you sound sensible actually OP

SIL is entited to her view (as you said) just as she is entitled to share it and not go
But you also are entitled to be upset about it (aparantly just because your talking about circmcision ,means you are an abuser who is not capable of feeling and not allowed her own - by some posters which She should have had more tact and like you when people have an issue with something I like them to fully explain it in an adult way (have experience of that with my own SIL (DBros wife) and hanukkah)
But have a non alcoholic glass of wine and take a breath. have a coffee with her (of the decaff type) and tell her that her wording upset you. but make it clear that it is not her view that upsets you. Have a chat talk about it. could you maybe do the bris (maybe just with the actual circumcision) with a brit chayim as well for the naming part? and have her still as Kvetterin for that part, but only if you feel comfortable doing so

'I think you are being unfair on your SIL expecting her to hide her feelings. Everyone is entitled to there views and entitled to air them.'

And that's the crux of it sirzy, in one breath the OP says she respects other people when they explain themselves to her for not liking circumcision, but in the next when it's her SIL explaining she's not going because she thinks it's disgusting, the OP changes her mind and decides she's not all that keen on knowing after all

"mn does not equal the world and the miilions of people who partake in circumcision in the world"

Would you even conceed that MN might be in some way representative of the UK where religions which circumcise are in the minority and there is no recent cultural tradition of circumcision?

Part of my issue with circumcision for religious or cultural reasons is that the explanations tend to be along the lines of "that's what we do" which isn't really an explanation and is rather unthinking.

as you have also called me Scum fabby i'm going to reply and say in no uncertain term FUCK OFF.

And i think you will find OP said her Mohel was a surgeon. so definatly qualified.

YABU. It is disgusting. Why would anyone want to witness a tiny defenceless baby being tortured? There are some vile traditions around the world dressed up as religion. One is a tribe in South America who force young boys to give the older men blow-jobs because it "gives them warrior strength". That would be seen as disgusting by most people. And it can't be justified on the basis of religion and history.

It's child abuse, and it's disgusting.

OP, you are being GROSSLY unreasonable in pretending that you not judging other people for doing things that don't involve them cutting parts off their children is the same as others judging you for doing something that does. Whatever one's views on circumcision, it's missing the point spectacularly to pretend that it's somehow comparable to wearing a wig, or having a Christmas tree. Please you and anyone else who's attempting to continue pressing this point, stop with the fucking bullshit examples. Any examples you want to give to try and justify your decision need to involve someone else cutting off a part of their child that won't grow back, without the child's permission, causing them pain, risking medical complications for no properly proven medical benefits.

You are also being exceptionally unreasonable to suggest that something is deserving of respect because it is part of your religion. It isn't.

Lastly, you are being unreasonable in demanding not to be called abusive. A lot of people think that subjecting your child to a painful, medically unnecessary procedure, whose health benefits are at best not fully proven, without their consent is child abuse. What you are doing is horrifying to them. They are perfectly entitled to say you are being abusive.

Exactly breathes, have never seen a good explanation other that "that is what we do". It is so unintelligent and unthinking, it saddens me that people are so blinded by a so called faith they cannot see it for what it is.

Maybe she's been thinking about this for a long time, and just biting her tongue out of politeness until now? Maybe it's something she and her DH have discussed, in relation to their own future children, and she's worried she's got this battle ahead. Maybe, as a childless non-Jewish woman, she can't think of many more awkward, distressing situations to be in than carrying a baby into a circumcision ceremony she doesn't agree with or believe in?

YANBU to be hurt that she doesn't see it as the honour you do, and YANBU to think she's being a little blunt. But YABU to assume she'd be on board with the whole thing, when she married an apparently non-practising secular Jew and didn't covert.

Yes, this person is definitely qualified to mutilate children.

And fabby for once I agree with you.

Circumcision is prehistoric.

Now then fabby and fridgemonkey, less of the abuse or MNHQ will be deleting the thread.

Its barbaric.

It's obscene.

It is prehistoric.

I hope the thread does get pulled.

It's from the dark ages.

I am atheist as you could probably gather by my previous posts. My friend is Catholic and married in church. I went along, I wouldn't miss out on something like that just because it is a religious ceremony. I stand and sit at the right points but don't say prayers or sing hymns as I am not a hypocrite.

Fast forward a couple of years, she has a baby. She knows and respects my views so said to me that she knows I would turn down an offer to be a godparent so asked me to be Aunty Jenfraggle instead. I accepted, again attending the christening but not saying prayers or singing hymns.

If she was Jewish and was having him circumcised then I wouldn't have gone and would have had to express my views to her. I don't know how this would have affected our friendship but I do have morals (yes, non religious people have them too) and couldn't ignore that. Luckily I don't know any Jews so have never found myself in this awkward position.

If I knew where this ceremony was taking place I'd call social services.

I'd be reporting it to the police.

I'd stand in the way of a knife meant for a child, a new baby.

It is not done in the name of love, how can you say you love your child when you are going to mutilate him.

And if MN, (which isn't the whole world, remember) had come onto the AIBU that the you voluntarily posted, presumably with the assumption that you'd get lots of support and said yes, you're right. Your SIL is a loon, enjoy your son's bris, we'd miraculously be right, yes? So we're only wrong because we don't agree with you. How very convenient.

Fabby - I am COMPLETELY agreeing with you - which is unusual. I often find your thoughts on child-rearing, erm, unusual. But we obviously both agree on this one!

Mohel can be medically trained and creams applied.

So you wouldn't do it? Its not a mitzvah for you but it is for Jews and has been for millenia.

Likening it to torture is hysterical nonsense.

Better if the thread stays though so that people see how unacceptable it is.

I think the OP genuinely thought that most people would like the idea of being involved so it might be an eye opener for other people reading it.

I think you would find it is perfectly legal
Never suggest I, OP or anyione else who choses circumcision doesn't love their children. I certainly love mine.

I don't want it to get pulled fabby.

People should be able to say what they think, and more importantly, other people should be able to read their views to get a snifter of how and why people find it offensive.

I think OP was asking about being uposet about the wording of SIL comment not on her choice.
nenevomito I agree.

Fabby - I don't think that is true. I do know Jews who follow all of it. Just there aren't many as it is a real labour of love and absorbs your whole being.

What would you call it then nenevomito? Will you be lining up to have part of your own body removed? No thought not.

And oh to be part of a group that shows ther love for their newborn sons by taking a knife to them. Some love...