about SIL and DS1's Bris (circumcision) ?

[imlikeaironingboard]

I'm Jewish (Liberal) and DH counts himself as secular Jewish (as does all of his family).
His DBro (my BIL) married out - not a 'big' thing with them due to the whole non practicing/secular thing.

I'm due to give birth to DS1 (DC2) in a week.

They do not have children and it is only DH and BIL as siblings. our DC1 is a DD.

Both DH and BIL are circumcised.

She told us tonight that she would not be coming to DS1 Bris. The idea of doing that 'disgusts' her.

AIBU to be really upset and to think that she should have realised that marrying into a jewish family secular or not would mean that these sort of things would happen?

This has really really upset me - I have never got a hint of her feeling like this before.

Bemused northernlurker trying to steer what is/isnt up for discussion.it's a circumcision thread pretty much,and no amount of ohhhh don't go. There makes it any other way

I know you know what MN is all about Nortern, and I also know we both know the OP knew posting about a Bris would inevitably goad provoke posters into discussing the rights/wrongs of the subject.

Why would you want to control that discussion and tell people it's inappropriate, and the subject should only be skirted round and never spoken of?

If sil maintains cordial distance doesn't disrupt bris,then it just sits there as a legit pov,op this can't be only time you heard this. So weigh it up,is it worth aggro?

I disagree - imo this forum works best when people answer the question asked. Threads that people seize upon to beat their own drum are not helpful to the people asking for advice and support. The OP can get the impression that her sil is not alone in holding the view she does, without highly emotive attacks about the decision she has made. I agree there is a valid debate to be had about infant circumcision but I think that is best done seperately from a specific family issue where the poster is already very upset by her own admission.

but that is what she did.
Ohh and when you come from polish jews you get it hammered into you that you must have a opened mind to not brings about destruction.
All views if said in an adult, tactful and thoughtful way are rational.

I'm upset because a woman who has never made any comment about my faith before (even when she met some of my ultra orthodox cousins) who was going to be DS kvetterin has told me it disgusts her.
That wasn't a provoktion of something that was me asking a simple question of AIBU to be very upset.
and actually from my friendd (non jwish ones) I have never had someone tell me that it is disgusting, to hear it from my SIL is a whole other ball game.

Well you would said that given you already try steer thread.topics and pov expand and posters experientially and ideologically contribute. And the circumcision Bris Milah is pivotal as is sil reaction

Op,a non Jew friend may not be as forthright as sil so much as you not like her pov she is straight and you know where you are with her. Got to weigh up on balance of stuff is e overall ok

I think YABU. Your SIL is uncomfortable, and has said so. Why should she not have an opinion just because it is your faith?

Faith and religion do not trump everything else, and it really gets up my nose when people think they do.

It's news to me that circumcision is separate from family issues Nothern.

Posters aren't reasonable to attack the OP for her decision, but they are reasonable to use emotive language when they feel strongly about something.

The OP took the decision to post about circumcision on a parenting website, well known for its often viciously forthright opinions, and I'm sure she predicted posters might give their opinions, and that they might be negative.

Even if the OP said she wouldn't embrace anyone discussing her SILs view, it's up to posters to ultimately decide which direction the thread goes in (or MNHQ if anyone crosses the line).

Does the fact your SIL hasn't mentioned her feelings on your religion point to her respect for it OP?

If she was that thoughtless, she would have shown her contempt long before now.

Look OP YANBU to be upset your SIL was not being tactful or thoughtful about your feelings when she said her opinion.
As you said she can hold a view and can share it but the way she did is hurtful to you. and no matter what anyones personal views about the topic to be upset is NU at all.
It is a pitty she can no longer have a 'role' but that is her belief and she will stick by it.
scottish surely it is possible for OP to have only known SIL for 5 yrs and some non jewish friends since shes was 5? thererfore her friends (guess the non jewish bit was for clarification) would be forthright.
Actually OP you sound sensible about it all.

Maybe tell her that saying it disgusted her was hurtful (she may not realise) and tell her that if she doesn't come that is fine.

I'm saying pals unlikely be as forthright as sil, and on balance have a think about sil...is she overall kind,etc.ok so big ruction about this.but objectively is it overall ok? Given. Sil got Jewish husband unlikely she harbours deep prejudice,may vehemently disagree but still be on side overall.don't chuck away something ok over this

Perhaps she is squeamish? I would not want to be present during it either. Did you ask her if the disgusting part was to be there during it, or the fact that it is being done at all?

Perhaps your SIL gave you her gut reaction because she assumed that as most of the immediate family were secular Jewish circumcisions wouldn't be on the agenda? And now she has realised that they are and perhaps her husband would be wanting to circumcise any prospective sons of theirs.

I can remember when my sister was pregnant being made aware that that was her husband's (totally non practicing Jew) viewpoint, and how totally horrified and upset she was that that battle might be ahead. Luckily she had daughters.

If it's not an accepted part of your culture then circumcision for non medial reasons does seem barbaric. If none of your friends have ever told you that then I suspect it's because (on the whole) non religious people don't talk about religion with religious friends, at least not the parts of the religion that they find very difficult, because it's never a good conversation to get into.

Looking up the meaning of Kvatter I can also understand that although clearly this is something that you thought would be a special honour for your SIL for her it was probably a horrifying suggestion, as it means being a very active participant in the ceremony.

I married a Catholic, still point blank refuse to attend any exorcisms though. And quite vocal about why I won't go and my opinion on them.

So I don't biy the argument that marrying a jew means she has to fall into line and attend the religous practices his extended family do.

I think when your religious has something that is soon as so extreme by people from outside the religion then you have to expect extreme views. I would never feel comfy attending a circumcision as personally doing anything like that when not needed medically (not even touching on having an audience) is disgusting.

It could be argued you aren't being fair on your SIL expecting her to hide her feelings.

Does your dh go along to a lot of exorcisms, fastweb?

OP, I can understand why you're upset but I think that you have to try harder to respect your SIL's view, just as you're expecting her to respect yours. The fact that yours is grounded in your faith does not make it more valid.

I think you should tell her that you were hurt by her choice of words, but fully respect her view on the subject and have no problem with her decision not to attend.

Some religions have cannibalism as part of their rituals, and some have child sacrifice. Some people think blowing up large buildings, dropping bombs, engaging in crusades, etc, is important to their religious faith.
Why does everything done in the name of religion have to be "respected".

People draw their lines in different places. I am disgusted that you wouldn't make your disapproval of female genital mutilation crystal clear to a hypothetical close relative (out of respect for their religion).

It's MIL with the exorcism fetish.

Her carer won't go in (can't say I blame him) so I regularly get her begging me to take her, probably wants me so badly cos she is convinced I have the devil in me and can "stealth" chase him out if she can just get me inside while they are exorsing

DH is more than supportive of my not going. He doesn't want HER going.

Rest of the family, not so much. Much chuntering of "marry one of us, accept all practices"

Imlike, I can understand that you're upset about the wording SIL used.

I am Jewish myself but I would have said no to the role of Kvatter, I do not agree with circumcision so I would not want to have any part in it. I have attended a Bris and I would not want to be part of it gain, I found it wholy upsetting so I can understand your SIL view point.

She could have been more tactful but to be very honest, circumcision is a very emotive subject, the facts are we're dealing with infants having an unnecessary medical procedure being carried out without proper medical anesthetic.

I would not take it personally, I am sure SIL did not intend to upset you. You asked her to be part of a religious ritual which is important to you, she however objects to it and that is her right to do so.

YABU. I'm not Jewish but some of my colleagues are, and are quite open about the fact that Bris upsets them. They still go along with it and believe that it's an essential rite but they also recognise it for what it is.

Someone without the benefit of Jewish culture is perfectly entitled to feel the same. Your SIL might have been more tactful.

I'm sure she did realise it was likely to happen, (although marrying into a non-practising family she maybe hoped it wouldn't be an issue) bu that doesn't mean she has to be seen to support or condone it. And coming along to celebrate it would be to condone it.

Why should people tiptoe around the idea of genital mutilation? I'm with your sil.

Yabu. Dh still remembers the horror of his circumcision aged 3 (medical). Just because something is part of someone's religion does not make it beyond the judgement of others. I think good for her for standing up for her beliefs and in her mind probably making a stand on behalf of your DS.