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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

about SIL and DS1's Bris (circumcision) ?

999 replies

imlikeaironingboard · 25/10/2011 01:05

I'm Jewish (Liberal) and DH counts himself as secular Jewish (as does all of his family).
His DBro (my BIL) married out - not a 'big' thing with them due to the whole non practicing/secular thing.

I'm due to give birth to DS1 (DC2) in a week.

They do not have children and it is only DH and BIL as siblings. our DC1 is a DD.

Both DH and BIL are circumcised.

She told us tonight that she would not be coming to DS1 Bris. The idea of doing that 'disgusts' her.

AIBU to be really upset and to think that she should have realised that marrying into a jewish family secular or not would mean that these sort of things would happen?

This has really really upset me - I have never got a hint of her feeling like this before.

OP posts:
Inertia · 25/10/2011 20:11

Your SIL is showing you far more respect than you plan to show your newborn son. At least your SIL isn't cutting your genitals without your consent to make her point. She has just told your her point of view, which you can choose to ignore. Your son has no choice.

Methe · 25/10/2011 20:12

Maybe she should have said " no dahling, I can't do that. Chopping pieces off babies gives me a dickie tummy. Fancy a cupcake?"

Bollocks. She's your SIL and your friend, she thinks your actions are disgusting. Good on her for having the guts to say it.

HeresTheScaryThingBooyhoo · 25/10/2011 20:13

you know i'm getting really confused here.

you are upset because;

she didn't say it in a grown up way
she didn't explain it fully
she didn't say it when she first met you/first time you were pregnant/when you found out dc was a boy
or she is family so it's just rude no matter when she says it?

which is it?

Original poster
imlikeaironingboard · 25/10/2011 20:14

guillotined Abraham. that is basic OT actually.

I will say this again

It is the fact she didn't explain why. she said it disgusted her and that was it. I'm upset by the lack of explanation or tact. in it not her saying she doesn't agree or telling me that.
Of course they have that right - i was never suggesting otherwise.
Methe I'll refrain from replying

OP posts:
GnomeDePlume · 25/10/2011 20:15

I suppose the problem is that you thought that you were bestowing a great gift or honour upon her. You assumed she would be grateful, you assumed she would be honoured.

That was your mistake - you assumed.

AgentZigzag · 25/10/2011 20:16

I know when you post a thread you can't put everything you've done and feel into it, but you do seem to have a lot of double standards OP.

You've just posted another one.

You (quite rightly) don't want to explain your faith to anyone, and why should you, they're deeply held, private beliefs.

But you won't extend that same courtesy to your SIL, and hold it against her that she's not explained herself to your satisfaction.

I sometimes won't say exactly how I feel to a friend if my views conflicted with a belief they held dear, just because I know we think differently, talking/arguing about it won't make a difference, and I would value the friendship more than expressing my view.

Methe · 25/10/2011 20:17

I thought you might.

Original poster
imlikeaironingboard · 25/10/2011 20:17

All of the above Heres a grown up, explanation, which didn't come out of the blue. Ohh and it was her wording not the action itself. And no it isn't rude for her to say it.
They didn't know about Kvetter/in

OP posts:
GalloweesG · 25/10/2011 20:18

You've avoided answering lots of questions. Wonder why ?

HappyCamel · 25/10/2011 20:19

God made people the way He wanted them. He showed with Isaac that he didn't want human sacrifice. We shouldn't mutilate ourselves or our babies. We shouldn't hide our hair or our faces, God made us how he wanted us, beautiful, confident and in His image.

jellybeans · 25/10/2011 20:19

YABU I wouldn't go either as don't agree with it at all :(. There are other options aren't there these days? (ritual without cutting etc).

crunchbag · 25/10/2011 20:21

When you, you DH and BIL were discussing it did you ask SIL for her opinion? The fact that she didn't say anything didn't automatically mean she agreed.

As Gnome said in her post 'Not everyone knows all the rituals contained in their own faith let alone someone else's. Perhaps as your BiL is secular she wasnt aware that it would be an issue.'

I imagine it would have come as quite a shock to hear otherwise and ofcourse she wouldn't raise the issue there and then.

She is probably just as upset with you as you are with her.

HappyCamel · 25/10/2011 20:22

Also circumcision can lead to scarring, infection, loss of sensation which can lead to erectile problems. I've encountered it and it didn't make me well disposed to DP's parents and he had a difficult relationship with them for the same reason although he never told them explicitly why.

Original poster
imlikeaironingboard · 25/10/2011 20:23

gallow because I don't have 34 hands and 45 eyes to take them all in.
Agent by anyone I meant people here on MN and people I hardly know to my SIL i would explain something if it came up about my faith (as it sometimes does about food) I expect the same courtisy that is all.

OP posts:
diddl · 25/10/2011 20:25

"that is my faith"-yes yours-not your baby´s, not your SIL´s.

You can still be close-even though she doesn´t share your beliefs.

But I am surprised you wanted to ask someone not of your faith to be a kvetterin.

Methe · 25/10/2011 20:27

You know, I have a little boy. He's 2 and a more perfect creature has never walked the earth, he is the absolute apple of my eye. I cannot imagine ever allowing someone to chop a God given part of his perfect body off and I cannot understand why any parent would. Hell would freeze over before I would cause him pain and that is as it should be.

Parenting is supposed to be about protecting your children from pain, not inflicting it upon them.

HappyCamel · 25/10/2011 20:27

She needs to explain to you why she thinks circumcision is wrong? Why? So you can try to convince her otherwise?

Look, she'll probably offend you more explaining to you. You seem a bit upset with some of the posters here who probably believe the same as you SIL, that circumcision and mutilation are the same thing and they're mystified why, if you did it to a stranger it would be GBH but it's legal to do it to your own child without their consent.

HeresTheScaryThingBooyhoo · 25/10/2011 20:29

"It is the fact she didn't explain why. she said it disgusted her and that was it. I'm upset by the lack of explanation or tact."

sorry but what more explanation do you need than "it disgusts me"? it isn't a vague word. you know what disgust means surely you dont need her to elaborate?

Inertia · 25/10/2011 20:30

Why do you have the right to expect courtesy in the words people use about an act of barbarism? You are not even affording your son the basic human right of leaving his body unmutilated, and yet you have the right to get your knickers in a twist because a relative told you she was disgusted by this?

Magnumwhite · 25/10/2011 20:30

I probably wouldn't have used the exact word disgusting (if there are other ways i would have expressed my discomfort with the whole issue of infant circumcision)- but we all can express ourselves in perhaps not the most sensitive manner when we feel strongly about something. Sounds like SIL has been biting her tongue for a long while as she knows you feel strongly about it too - and found herself reacting strongly when asked to perform a role she is unable to because her beliefs are also very strong and she is entitled to them.
Agent Zigzag said it well.
But if are set on going ahead with this circumcision, please respect your SIL and her right to not attend something she doesn't agree with, forgive her outburst, move on, and preserve a friendship if it means that much to you.

crunchbag · 25/10/2011 20:31

It could be a highly emotive subject to her, maybe it has caused many arguments between her and her DH.

Yes she could have said it slightly different but at least now you and everyone else knows her view on circumcision. You were just too naive in assuming that she agreed with your beliefs.

GalloweesG · 25/10/2011 20:33

You don't have to circumcise so I can assume you are choosing to. Shame on you.

Original poster
imlikeaironingboard · 25/10/2011 20:34

No not for me to convince her - i would not do that or enter into a conversation where that could be construded as what I was doing.
TACT!! and adult way of expaling

I don't know about you but I don't go around telling people part of their faith /religion disgusts me.
Now wearing a wig when married may disgust me and make me livid but I don't tell my cousins that. If they ask which they have done I tel them honestly not bashing around words why I'm not and why I don't like it.

and many people have god parents when they aren't religious (either god parents or children - either not religious or not practicing).

OP posts:
Original poster
imlikeaironingboard · 25/10/2011 20:37

To me there is no option on it - it is just a part of it all. now I know people who do chose not to and find other ways and I respect them for it. But for me there is no option. end of.

OP posts:
HeresTheScaryThingBooyhoo · 25/10/2011 20:38

your SIL didn't go round telling people either!! you asked her to take part in part of your faith and she declined and she explained why!! she did not go round telling people in the street. you invited her to take part!!!