to think this poster is a heap of sexist woman-blaming SHIT?

[QueenOfFlamingEverything]

Here - a nice bit of misogynism from the police in Wales.

How about a big poster suggesting helpfully "Rape. Don't be a rapist. Use your dick sensibly. Rapists feature in 100% of rapes??"

The poster will not prevent all rapes, but if it prevents just one, the surely it has been worthwhile.

Tenderly, I am talking about a stranger in the pub, who you dont know, who isnt part of your group of friends, who nobody else knows.

I don't mean you are mad, just the idea that accepting refreshments = up for it is more than a bit unhinged

GalaxyWeaver
Teaching your children about strangerdanger is one of the worst things you can do because it generally is not strangers who abuse children.

This is not just my opinion - I was told this by police officers in Germany and in Scotland.

Abusers prey on the vulnerable. The children whose parents don't notice if they come home an hour late from school. The children who are not self-confident enough to tell them to back off. The children who are already being abused or neglected at home. Not always, but often.

Teaching them that their body is their own, that no one has the right to touch them, that if they feel uncomfortable that they should shout out and walk away - these are the important lessons.

Bringing up confident children protects them from abuse.

And again, it does not stop the abusers, it just protects your own children.

lindor how is the poster any different from a parents advice to their children to avoid certain situations.

everyone against the poster do you try to avoid certain dangers or do you just say well it happens anyway so why should i

because that is what i am getting from your posts

mini
I go out and have a drink. If walk home in the dark (but only because we live in an area where assault is rare, if I lived in the city then I would take taxis or drive). I would accept a drink from a stranger, but make it clear that that was all I wanted.

lindor just because it is more common for people you know abuse you does not make it any less important to warn of outside dangers. There will be postersand articles giving warning signs of home abuse too. it does not make lessons about stranger danger any less important

No, it's okay, LivingDead. Thank you :)

I just thought it might be worth injecting a few more real-life truths into the discussion It is very naive, imo, to think that not drinking will save you from getting raped because it won't make an iota of difference. Do people think women never get raped in Muslem countries fgs?!

Messages like this offer false security, I think.

That's an easy question to answer squeaky. Take rape out of the equation and promote a strong message to both sexes about public safety and the risk of accidental and deliberate harm.

If there's going to be an advertising campaign about preventing rape specifically, focus on the truth that the vast majority of rapes are carried out by a known assailant. That those rapists are not somehow "other" but are ordinary men living among us, who think it laughable to ask their partners if they want sex and won't leave them alone if they say "no". Give women the confidence to label their experiences as rape and to support their friends when this happens to them (including online "friends").

Teach teenagers about consent and what constitutes rape. Link this to a campaign that will counter the expectation that all boys will use porn.

Conduct a nationwide campaign about what constitutes rape and reinforce that message by encouraging more crime reporting and securing more convictions.

In all this, focus on the assailant and defeating the culture that he is somehow entitled to have sex, because he is a man.

And for all of us to stop perpetuating rape myths and the erroneous view that women can prevent it happening, by altering our behaviour.

Teaching them that their body is their own, that no one has the right to touch them, that if they feel uncomfortable that they should shout out and walk away - these are the important lessons. Bringing up confident children protects them from abuse.

YYY, MmeLindor.

so you are taking a taxi or driving in the city to avoid putting yourself in a vulnerable position. That is sensible and the sort of message the poster is pointing out.

"There will be postersand articles giving warning signs of home abuse too."

where are these posters?

yeah because a taxi is always safe...

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/mar/14/taxi-rapist-worboys

and what advice are they giving to victims? dont be at home, ever?

Great post WindsorTides. Shows up how sorely inadequate victim blaming posters are in decreasing instances of rapes and changing attitudes to rape.

excellent post windsor.

Sorry, DH came home and I pressed send by mistake.

What I was going to say was that yes, I take precautions with my personal safety, doesn't everyone?

But I would still have a drink, maybe even get more that tipsy.

And I do walk home, concious that there is still a chance, even in our sleepy little village that a rapist lurks.

Why should I hide at home or deny myself the pleasure of a night out with friends? And I object to the message that doing this would protect me from rape, as it so clearly does not.

Think about the rape/murder cases of the past few years, the big stories. How many of them were after a night on the town? How many were in broad daylight?

I do agree that a 'don't get pissed' message is a good one, though, for other reasons. Reasons that the person has control over themselves. For example, not falling over and hurting themselves, catching pneumonia from falling asleep on the street, losing their possessions.

windsorTides, you don't know me, we have never really "chatted" but I really admire your posts

blackout you can do that with everything

that doesn't change the fact that there are ways that you can make things safer for yourself and make you less vulnerable target to crimes.

yes they can and do happen even when you do these things. But there is less chance of it happening. if you buy your own drinks and do not leave them unattended you significantly reduce the risk of your drink being spiked

if you travel at night with a group of friends there is far less chance of you being attacked by a rapist as they will avoid a group and target someone on their own.

tons and tons of different ways to make yourself safer and less of a target. It does not guarantee anything but it is significantly better than being in positions in which it is far more likely.

And in no way am i blaming rape victims if they do get attacked.

this is a really interesting thread. Mme Lindor, and Narky, your posts have really made me think.

and everyone else, actually.

mini - I think the argument comes down to the fact that, if you choose to put your energies into campaigning about not making yourself vulnerable, then, in our society it seems to give the powers that be carte blanche to ignore all the things windsorTides said.

I have never seen a poster campaign advising teenage boys not to drink too much, go to pubs and walk home at night. It's what they are expected to be allowed to do

can i just ask again, why is the money reserved for this not being spent on posters directed at the 80% of rapes carried out by people known to the victim rather than the 9% of stranger rapes? why is the money being spent not proportional to the statistics of rape? is it just that it's easier to blame women for stranger rape and when someone says "i was raped by my husband" they find it harder to find a reason for you to blame yourself? is it easier to ignore that massive 80% and perpetuate this idea that women who drink are asking for it?

sorry, getting cross now.

I was going to recommend windsorTides for a role as Government 'rape tsar'.
Though the title could probably do with a makeover ...