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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think this poster is a heap of sexist woman-blaming SHIT?

362 replies

QueenOfFlamingEverything · 19/10/2011 16:23

Here - a nice bit of misogynism from the police in Wales.

How about a big poster suggesting helpfully "Rape. Don't be a rapist. Use your dick sensibly. Rapists feature in 100% of rapes??"

OP posts:
Chocobo · 19/10/2011 20:11

squeaky - I am very sorry for what happened to you and your friend - when horrible things happen it is natural to think about all the "what ifs". Hindsight is a wonderful thing but you cannot always prevent terrible things from happening no matter how careful you are. :(

Wamster · 19/10/2011 20:12

Squeaky
It's ironic for me because I disagree with your statement about rapes being unavoidable.

It doesn't matter how much a woman drinks, or what she does, the only thing that makes her prone to being a victim is meeting a rapist.

All this stuff about not drinking making things safer. No! Women get raped when stone cold sober. Might as well say 'Avoid marriage' as a high percentage of rapes happen within wedlock.

In fact, a woman can get completely rat-arsed, go to bed with a man, kiss him and change her mind and he will say 'fair enough' and not touch her further if he is not a rapist.

Staying sober does not prevent rape.

It's ironic for me, though, because in your scenario here, I could not send the guy down for rape if the woman cannot remember what they did in bed.
'Probably didn't consent' to sex ain't good enough reason to convict a man of rape, I'm afraid.

I'd be more than happy to send a man to prison to rape no matter how pissed the woman was or how much they had flirted all night. But probably did not consent? Not good enough, I'm afraid. She has to be sure in her own mind about what happened.

Birdsgottafly · 19/10/2011 20:13

When they did poster targeting the rapists, these were criticed as well
gayloveexists.tumblr.com/.../bitterbuffalo-ways-this-psa-completely-utterly

Wamster · 19/10/2011 20:13

Oops. That should be: 'disagree with your statement about rapes being avoidable'.

Chocobo · 19/10/2011 20:14

Well said TNMBB - totally agree.

squeakyfreakytoy · 19/10/2011 20:14

You are reducing the risk to your girls.

Yes, I am, because they are the ones that I can hopefully have some influence over. Why on earth would I not put my girls first?????

The rapist will move on to a different girl

And hopefully will not find one. I cannot be responsible for educating others into personal safety precautions.

Should I feel guilty because I have reduced the risk to my girls and it has meant another girl has been attacked?? Confused

WoTmania · 19/10/2011 20:18

OP - I've nothing to add htat other people haven't said and YANBU

It's victim blaming. And, I don't think you can liken it to most other crimes (like the 'expensive bike not locked up securely being stolen' idea) because whether people blamed the victim or not they would definitely believe them which unfortunately doesn't happen with women who report rape a lot of the time

minimisschief · 19/10/2011 20:19

lindor. yes the rapist will move onto someone else. he will move on to an easier target. Now the point of the poster is to boost awareness of becoming a target. if more people took heed of the poster than the rapist would have a harder time finding an easy target.

the whole point is to make more people aware of the dangers.

HeresTheScaryThingBooyhoo · 19/10/2011 20:19

"I dont allow men who are not in my group of friends to buy me drinks. If offered I will politely refuse. "

you are more likely to be raped by one of those men that you do let buy you drinks i.e; the men you know and trust. that is the truth backed up by statistics.

squeakyfreakytoy · 19/10/2011 20:25

Yes HTSTB, I do know that statistically that is more likely, but I would still refuse to take a drink from someone who I do not know, thereby possibly increasing my chance of a place in the statistic charts...

GalaxyWeaver · 19/10/2011 20:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Wamster · 19/10/2011 20:27

Actually, I think the feminists are right about this issue.

Uppity · 19/10/2011 20:28

But not accepting a drink doesn't increase your chance of being raped. Being out with a man you know increases your chance of being a rape victim far more, but I bet you do that.

Chocobo · 19/10/2011 20:28

Can we just agree that going out and getting completely wasted is never a good idea no matter who you are (so not sure why women only are being told not to get drunk).

If you do something stupid to somebody else such as hit them/be sick on their shoes etc whilst blind drunk that it is entirely your fault and you should take responsibility for being so drunk.

However if somebody else does something to you, no matter what state you are in, surely that is their fault entirely.

StewieGriffinsMom · 19/10/2011 20:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AnyPhantomFucker · 19/10/2011 20:32

cassettetapeandpencil I am very sorry you had that horrendous experience x

squeakyfreakytoy · 19/10/2011 20:33

But not accepting a drink doesn't increase your chance of being raped. Being out with a man you know increases your chance of being a rape victim far more, but I bet you do that

Accepting a drink from someone I dont know is simply giving them false encouragement that I might be interested in them, when I am not. Why else would any woman allow a man who they have never met, and do not know to buy them a drink?? Fine if you are interested in the man, then yes.. personally I wouldnt.

The only time I am out on my own with a man is when I am with my husband, or with my stepson, neither of whom pose any danger to me.

TenderlyLovinglyByAGoat · 19/10/2011 20:34

I think one of the points 'the feminists' are trying to make is that if you are wondering what you can do to reduce your chances of this sort of assault, the whole 'don't get drunk when you are out' thing is of very limited use as you are much more likely to be in your own or someone else's home, hotel room, workplace, perhaps car with someone you are married to, living with, related to or otherwise pretty well acquainted with.

Otherwise of course it is generally good not to get too drunk, it's just probably more helpful advice in other contexts such as crossing roads, driving, operating machinery rather than a way of minimizing risk of sexual assault.

But it does go further and touch nerves too and that isn't fair, especially when a campaign that spelled out what does and doesn't constitute consent, aimed at perpetrators, could be of some actual help. Maybe.

I feel a bit sick now.

Wamster · 19/10/2011 20:34

People talk about the 'rapists' as if they are a separate species. It is important to realise that unless women go and live on an island totally free of the male species, avoiding rape is impossible. It's luck not judgement. 'That guy is OK, that guy isn't'. It's not always -if ever- possible to tell.
So no matter what the victim does or doesn't do, she is at a disadvantage because unless she avoids ALL men for the rest of time, she can't avoid the possibility of rape. Fatalism is probably a reasonable response.

So if there is nothing the victim can do to prevent rape, and therefore cannot be reasonably blamed, the onus must be on the men who commit rape.

HeresTheScaryThingBooyhoo · 19/10/2011 20:34

ok, well lets say for a moment that we all agree it's common sense for everyone to keep their wits about them when having a drink (for lots of reasons, not just rape). that's a given, everyone should, in an ideal world, be sensible.

but lets look at the fact that 80% of rape is carried out by someone known to the victim. why is all this money being spent on the 9% of stranger rape? why isn't marital rape being focussed on? or rape within a relationships or friendship or rape by your work colleague. why isn't moeny being spent on focussing on that massive 80% as opposed to the 9% that stranger rape is?

garlicScaresVampires · 19/10/2011 20:35

To the "Should be more careful" posters:
I'm interested to know which of the following experiences from my own life you consider were my fault.

  1. Rape on first date. I was on his bed with him, had been drinking, but wasn't legless. I'd missed the last tube home (he said.) I was a naive virgin.
  1. Anal rapes by husband. Sober and drunk.
  1. Attempted rape by a stranger. I was walking home, had been drinking but not drunk, talked him out of it then ran away.
  1. Attempted rape by a friend. We were both shedded. Talked him out of it.
  1. Attempted rape by a neighbour, in my house, sober. I had often invited him in for a cuppa. Fought him off.
  1. Sexual assault by a stranger at a party. Happened in a flash, didn't even see his face until afterwards.
  1. Sexual assault by taxi driver. I had been drinking, which is why the Rohypnol worked so fast.

Interestingly, the last one was by John Worboys, who was caught after raping a teenager who didn't drink alcohol - she remembered. He is thought to have attacked over 400 women. Were all 400 at fault for having drunk alcohol?

It's well-known that the ONLY precaution I urge women and girls to take is a really good self-defence course. But I'm interested to hear your feedback!

Btw, these are far from my only experiences. It's shocking how common rape and sexual assault are - pretty well to the point of being considered normal. Is this the fault of women?

TenderlyLovinglyByAGoat · 19/10/2011 20:38

"Why else would any woman allow a man who they have never met, and do not know to buy them a drink?"

are you mad or do you never meet up in groups with friends and their new boyfriends or their brothers or cousins or dads - do you ever go to weddings or dinners or big gatherings or any sort of occasion where strangers-to-you (but known to your friends) might offer you a drink? Am not thinking of spiking, just how automatic politeness usually is.

MmeLindor. · 19/10/2011 20:38

Squeaky
No, you should not feel guilty for not protecting the other girls, but you should also not maintain that this kind of poster prevents rape, when it so clearly doesn't.

FontOfAllEvil · 19/10/2011 20:40

Would a rapist look at a poster and think, oh okay, the poster tells me not to rape....i'll just go home then.

To be honest, I can see this from both sides of the coin. Wasn't there an NHS poster with much the same message a couple of years ago?

BeyondLimitsOfTheLivingDead · 19/10/2011 20:40

garlic :(