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Original poster

10 Tips to Prevent Rape

688 replies

coldwed · 19/10/2011 09:43

Should this leaflet be handed out to the public?

www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2141096

OP posts:
Wooooooooooooooppity · 21/10/2011 15:00

But LaWeasel, when men are raped, unless they are in prison, other men don't make excuses for their rapists. Neither do women.

Whereas when women get raped, all sorts of excuses are brought forth.

And also, men generally don't have any confusion whatsoever when they are raping other men. Whereas when they rape women, apparently they're confused about it and can't be expected to know it's rape.

So there are massive differences between the rape of men and women and the message can't be the same about both because the two are treated entirely differently in our culture and in our legal system

thunderboltsandlightning · 21/10/2011 15:02

Well said Wooopity.

Also if men want to start a campaign against other men raping them, no one's stopping them.

Tianc · 21/10/2011 15:03

Shaz, thanks for signing in.

Can you talk us through consent from your husband's side. Because IIUC, you end up having sex where you are awake ? and therefore able to consent or not ? but he is asleep, and therefore cannot give consent.

Do you between you decide that prior consent (by deciding to sleep in the same room that night) is sufficient?

Or do you go with kelly's claim that there can never be any such thing as prior consent wrt sex? In which case, how do you solve the problem that for him, the sex is non-consensual?

LaWeasel · 21/10/2011 15:05

I think it's an argument that will be lost on most people and not really worth persuing.

If you deliberately exclude men from the do-not-rape message then the debate about the difference between men and women being raped will always become the main thing debated.

I'd rather people debated how crap don't-get-raped advice is, consent etc.

catgirl1976 · 21/10/2011 15:07

"thunderbolts* - I really don't mind being pentrated by my husband when I am asleep.

In our relationship, sex isn't something he "does to me", it is a mutual, physical celebration of our love for each other. It is mutually pleasurable and enjoyable. I always wake up during the sex, fairly early on to be honest and honestly cannot think of a more beautiful way to be woken up.

I have a higher sex drive than DH anyway so for me its extra sex which is a bonus. He is actually more affectionate in his sleep than awake and the sex is not violent or aggresive. It's lovely and affectionate and I really, really enjoy. I like the lack of inhibition as well.

I really think that claiming this is rape, aside from being offensive to myself and my DH is offensive to women who have been raped.

MonstrouslyNarkyPuffin · 21/10/2011 15:14

Can we try not to derail a really good thread with a very narrow discussion.

ShazMiffedWithPpl · 21/10/2011 15:14

Im with you there catgirl. Sex is rather uninhibited and rather fun. As DH has already stated if I decided that I dont want to be disturbed then the rather comfy spare room comes in. And if I decided at the time that I dont want sex then a good push and a no deals with that nicely.

Tianc : from the perspective you mention then yes it is actually me who is relying on prior consent. Seem to me that we have worked out a very organic way of working with what nature has placed in our relationship.

ShazMiffedWithPpl · 21/10/2011 15:15

My input here is done with now folks

thunderboltsandlightning · 21/10/2011 15:17

Do you understand that these two sentences completely contradict each other cats?

""thunderbolts* - I really don't mind being pentrated by my husband when I am asleep."

"In our relationship, sex isn't something he "does to me""

Clearly some of the time sex is something he does to you, given that you're asleep when he's doing it. When does he wake up BTW? Does the sex immediately change?

kelly2000 · 21/10/2011 15:18

tianc,
It is not just me claiming this, it is the law. If prior consent was enough, it would mean that if a woman changed her mind during sex it would be Ok for the man to carry on. The law says consent has to be present at the time and for the duration and if there is no such consent and the man knows there is no consent or is reckless to it then it is rape.

JanHal · 21/10/2011 15:20

Well I think that clears a few things up.

As to the OP I think the leaflet should be printed by the ton and widely distributed. Follow it up with some other hard hitting info directed at rapists themselves.

Hopefully that will start to shift perceptions a little so that our rather shabby legal system will deal with rapists in a strong manner.

mummery · 21/10/2011 15:38

I took my 8yr old DS to see 'The Three Musketeers' this week. Cinema full of kids, as you'd expect.

Joke from the character Porthos, who is advising the young D'Artagnan about how to deal with the women of Paris:

"They have so many ways of saying 'No', and only some of those mean 'Yes'."

WRT changing societal attitudes towards the act of rape and the treatment of rape victims, we have such a long way to go, it's terrifying Sad

Wooooooooooooooppity · 21/10/2011 15:46

Can people please not post things like: "calling this sort of rape rape (when the law states it is) insults real rape victims".

There are plenty of real rape victims on this thread and lurking, who would call this sort of rape rape, as does the law. No-one is saying that you have to dob your DH's to the rozzers, if you're happy to be technically raped, that's your choice - but don't tell other women that it doesn't count as rape if it happens to them and they don't want it to.

I'm also curious as to the legal status of having sex with someone who is a sexsomniac - isn't that sexual abuse, technically? If you willingly went along with being penetrated by someone who was asleep while he was penetrating you, couldn't he have you arrested for sexual assault the next morning? I'm not suggesting that would happen in the cases of the posters here, but I'm just thinking of the technical legal situation in a hypothetical case.

Sorry it's a bit derailing isn't it, just think it's worth mentioning.

thunderboltsandlightning · 21/10/2011 15:49

I think the only people who are actually asleep are the women being penetrated.

The sexsomniacs are lying in order to get away with some seriously creepy (criminal) behaviour.

It's not derailing on a thread about holding men who rape accountable for rape to examine ways people find to excuse them for their actions.

Wooooooooooooooppity · 21/10/2011 15:57

I must admit, it's a new excuse phenomenon isn't it?

I once had a lover who used to get erections in his sleep and push against me - but he was asleep, so I had the inconvenience of being woken up but certainly not being penetrated - he would have had to position himself and me quite carefully in his sleep to do that.

Hmmmmm....

Whatmeworry · 21/10/2011 16:05

This whole Sexomnia issue hijacking this thread is a red herring. If their DP's are not protesting - the opposite seems the case on this thread in fact - then it is not rape. Calling it so to just makes you look totally irrational, and that is not helpful.

kelly2000 · 21/10/2011 16:12

the sexsomnia that we hear about in courts (not here) seem to be very unusual as as well as the sex whilst sleeping, they are also different from other sleepwalkers in that they continue to stay asleep despite the fact their victim is yelling screaming and fighting back. Contrast that to the partners on here who say they can push their sexsomniac partners away easily. Also some of the people who have been acquitted after using the sexsomniac defence have never actually suffered from it before, and in one case the guys girlfriend admitted he had never had sex with her whilst asleep before. It is also funny that despite the fact there have been several cases where there was a lot of male and female potential victims in the house (one case was at a house party), there has never been a case in court of a straight male being accused of raping, or attempting to rape another male in his sleep.

MonstrouslyNarkyPuffin · 21/10/2011 16:21

I know it's a totally valid thing to discuss. I know it's not in any way an attempt to derail. It's just that it's a very specific issue that is related to but not directly about the issues in the OP. If you want to talk about it here, fine, but it probably deserves a thread of it's own.

JanHal · 21/10/2011 16:25

kelly : you might just have hit the nail squarely on the head there. What we have heard here sounds to me like the reality of sexomnia, ie a manageable condition that with a few very basic precautions is not causing anyone harm.

What so often seems to come up in the courts are people using supposed sexomnia as an excuse to get away with a criminal act. Unfortunatly a lot of people seem to be unable to separate the the two groups in their minds. And that is doing disservice to those men who have this condition and manage it perfectly well, and their partners who know the reality rather than the bullshit used to get away with rape.

Now to find a way of holding those rapists who are exploiting genuine sufferers to account.

JanHal · 21/10/2011 16:27

A thread to discuss this would in essence be ideal. (but would turn into a shouting match Im sure)

Rollon2012 · 21/10/2011 16:41

I think perhaps is the sexosomnia discussion wants to be continued perhaps another thread needs to be opened seems to have derailed.

to be sensitive to other posters where someone may have used that as excuse

However the same goes for the poster who claim this person is using it as an excuse when it was another poster who originally brought it up and frankly has dealt with some abusive posts in a quite dignified way.

catgirl1976 · 21/10/2011 17:26

I am sorry to mention it again, but I must take issue with something wooooopity has said.

don't tell other women that it doesn't count as rape if it happens to them and they don't want it to.

they key is the wanting it to. If they don't want it to happen then that's very different from a situation where you are happy for it to happen and that's the difference.

I was violently (and anally) raped by an ex partner. I think I know the difference between my husband making love to me in his sleep having fully disclosed a condition I am happy to live with and that.

heleninahandcart · 21/10/2011 17:28

to all of you who have shared their rape experiences on here and thank you all.

Your bravery enabled me to tell of my experiences for the first time ever. I deliberately didn't name change to make it real to anyone else who 'knows' me on here, and also to make real to me.

I do hope all the lurkers who have recognised their own experiences have been able to take some comfort from knowing they are not alone.

thunderboltsandlightning · 21/10/2011 18:01

Catgirl that is very disturbing that you were raped before and now your husband is penetrating you whilst you were sleeping.

LaWeasel · 21/10/2011 18:06

I think it is very wrong to tell someone they are being raped when they are happy with the situation.

It is a totally different situation to posters coming on and saying "my husband had sex with me when I was asleep and I'm not happy about it" but not being sure if it was rape or not.

Please could you move this to another thread.