Supermarket car park staff member - WIBU?

[HalloweenOutThatPumpkin]

AIBU, SN, Waitrose and the car park. I must be stark raving mad, but here goes ...

I shop in the same branch of Waitrose every other day and have done for years. All the regular staff know me and the guys who collect the trolleys are among them.

This evening half the car park was totally empty so instead of driving round the one way system shown by the arrows I nipped into the "down" lane, parked in the first space and got out of the car.

Cue fairly large trolley bloke who has SN of some sort (not sure what they are because he never talks to anyone as far as I know) shouting "Eh! Eh!" at me and pointing at the ground. I couldn't work out what he meant and just looked confusedly back at him. After a minute or so of this he walked over and shouted right in my face "One Way, One Way" and pointed at the arrow. I said that there were no other cars there so I couldn't see the problem. He followed me round the car, still shouting "One Way" at me while I hunted for my bags. It was after dark, there was no one else around and I felt quite intimidated so after I had scarpered to the shop I mentioned it at the customer service desk. I just said that it was quite an outburst and it had left me feeling a bit shaken.

Now I am not sure if I did the right thing. I don't think he will lose his job over it or anything that drastic, but should I have simply thought "the guy has SN, he obviously needs people to follow rules, I've broken them and I should suck it up", or was I right to complain about him shouting at me?

onefatcat - no dear, YOU were wrong to presume that trolley people at supermarkets have special needs.

She is wrong to think that there are different types of special needs she ought to be aware of. "(not sure what they are...)" she pointed out that he had special needs, why does she need to specify that she doesn't know what 'they' are? Not every adult with SN has a defined learning disability. This may come as a shock but there are some learning difficulties that just are, no rhyme or reason, no convenient name like Downs Syndrome, just connections in the brain that have not been made.

And yes, you do make allowances for adults with SN, why wouldn't you? Just as you might raise your voice for someone who is deaf. If you know that an adult has special needs then you might realise that you have to be more explanatory or more patient. Yes it does take a little more of your time, but that is something that is called compassion and understanding and if people had more of that, then there would be a lot more room in this world for adults who have difficulty understanding the social complexities of life.

Shoulda gone to Lidl.

I'm baffled as to why when he first pointed out what you did wrong you couldn't just go "Oh I'm sorry, won't do it again". That would have been the end of the story in all likelyhood.

What a crappy, depressing thread

You are wrong to assume i think all people who collect trolleys have SN- I was referring to her particular situation and from experience.

onefatcat, that is not what your post said. Many students collect trolleys too but I would never presume that my local trolley collector was a student just because some are.

I wouldn't say that anyone on this thread was "SN bashing", but I would say that there is a lot of ignorance around special needs.

Not all learning difficulties are easily identifiable. There are not terms covering every single aspect of special needs.
Adults who have SN find it extremely difficult to hold down any kind of job, not because they are not capable of working, most make excellent workers precisely because they love rules and stick to them like glue, but because members of the public don't like adults with SN.
They feel intimidated by them and some even think that special needs might be catching. You would feel sickened by some of the attitudes that still exist.

I applaud the fact that primary schools now take in children with special needs as it's made a huge difference to how the general public view learning difficulties (although I do think that secondary schools fail to cater for children with SN) and if you saw how the children interact with them, how patient they are, how tolerant, it would warm your heart. So I sincerely hope that the next generation will be accustomed to people with SN and will have far more tolerance, patience and understanding than has been shown on this thread.

I fail to see where my post said ALL trolley collectors have SN!!!
I didn't make that post blindly, I made it after reading the OP!! in which the poster described his behaviour and the fact that she had known him for 10 years. In this case she is probably right to assume he has SN! Which IS what I said.
ALSO! just because the OP said she didn't know what his SN are DOES NOT mean she thinks ALL SN have a name or is ignorant.
YOU! are being presumptious!

The thing that has pissed most of us of is the perception of people with SN.

There appears to be a general fear of what 'they might do'.

An acceptance that of course the OP would be scared.

Much like people clutching their handbags if my mixed race son walks by. The problem is in their head, not in his hands.

I was walking up the market a little while back and heard a commotion behind me. A guy was swearing and cussing his way up the road. A quick glance behind me told me withing a few seconds that this guy was with his mum/aunt/carer and he wasnt going to do anything. He probably spent most of his day cussing and swearing but it didnt mean he was going to attack anyone.

It doesnt take a genius to work this stuff out. Just a willingness to be open minded and to educate yourself.

Whoever said that 'sn people should be treated the same' or whatever is barking up the wrong bloody tree.

Course 'they' dont need treating the same. FFS not much point shoving a book of rules infront of my kid and saying 'read this'. But finding a way of teaching him these rules would be treating him 'equally'.

FWIW I dont think the OP needs a kicking but the thread has raised points that NEED addressing and revealed some attitudes that could do with some adjusting.

How would you read this sentence?

"Cue fairly large trolley bloke who has SN of some sort (not sure what they are because he never talks to anyone as far as I know)"

"He definitely has SN of some sort, but I just don't know what they are."

Would you say that the OP thinks that all types of special needs have clearly defined features and names?

And yes, I did find the bit where she said he had been there 10 years now, it was on the same sentence as "I have spoken to him on many occasions (commenting on the weather, thanking him for collecting my trolley) but I have never had a response."

So he obviously has special needs then.

And this from onefatcat: "Supermarkets often employ people with SN to collect trolleys etc so she is probably right to assume he has SN"

Sure she is! And you see nothing wrong with that comment at all?

Then I give up. I really do. There is widespread ignorance surrounding adults with special needs. A lack of consideration and patience and far too many people feeling intimidated by those people who lack communication skills.

The man has been compared to a hoodie or an aggressive bloke who might have wanted to punch her lights out. Yet he was wearing a Waitrose uniform, had been there for 10 years and was not in the car park at 4am but in the early evening I presume as it usually shuts at 8am.

And fwiw, our local Waitrose also has a one-way system and I have been confronted by a car coming the other way before now, usually in the evening when they think no-one is about. Besides the point I know, just thought I would say as it used to annoy the crap out of me.

There appears to be a general fear of what 'they might do'. I didn't get the impression that the OP felt intimidated because she thought he had some form of SN.

The impression I got was that she was afraid of him because he shouted at her, and then felt guilty for talking to customer services. I'd feel intimidated too tbh - not because I'm scared of people with SN but because I find people shouting in my face unnerving. And yup I'd haveve complained and then spent hours handwringing about the rights and wrongs of doing so.

I agree fully however that many people do seem to have a fear of what "they" might do, and that that's worth challenging.

wot jenai said

Well, I have explained the context of my comment to you Rhubarb, and you still prefer to think you know what I meant better than me so I'll leave you to it- think what you like.

There is a universal fear of what 'they' might do

it is known at nursery that ds4 has Sn siblings ( a few people on this thread have seen my boys: you would NOT run scared!). It isn;t known that ds4 is beinga ssessed, experience has taught me to keep my gob shut, but soemtimes I need to get to the front door first to be abck for drop offs so the need for why came out.

Anyway.

ds4 is fulfilling the role of no party invites this term, in absence of any overtly sn kids in intake.

Only reason I can think of is the Sn brother thing as it is too early on to actually know any of the kids.

Luckily I don't care and ds4 has no idea at all.

Sorry - still laughing at my vision of the OP mouthing 'quite an outburst' at the Customer Services lady, no doubt sotto voce and with raised eyebrows.

God knows if YWNBU at this point.

onefatcat I don't think it is right under any circumstances to presume that someone has special needs. But if you say that your comment was not meant to be taken in that context or to say that most trolley collectors have special needs then I'll take your word for it. I know that sometimes posts can be misinterpreted and I hope, sincerely hope, that is what has happened with you.

Jenai and Hully, I'm not too sure about that.
Either way she went to great pains to explain that he had special needs and mentioned twice that she didn't know what special needs he had (I won't go into that particular gem again). She also mentioned that she had seen him in the supermarket for 10 years. So I really don't think that she thought he was about to punch her or attack her in any way.

But whatever. Perhaps because I have had daily contact with someone who has SN I see things differently.

This thread has shown up some glaring ignorances about adults with SN. I hope that in future if someone comes across such an adult, they are more considerate in their dealings with them, less hasty to presume and more aware of the fact that having special needs should not exclude you from society. Yes they may not act in the way you feel is normal, they may not have excellent social skills, they may be a stickler for the rules and they may talk louder than is necessary but I think you'll find that if you treat them with respect they will appreciate it much more than you think, because believe me, these people will have been abused in their role. All they want to do is work and feel no different to anyone else.

OP:
I think you should have said politely 'yes, I'm sorry, you're right, it is one way, but I'm feeling a bit scared because you are shouting at me' ' and then possibly gone into the shop and said 'the gentleman who manages your trolleys has just been quite right in pointing out that I nipped in the wrong way, but next time it would be better if he doesn't yell at the customers he is advising'.

Constructive polite feedback, as with anyone.

Like everyone else on the thread with the exception of OP I wasn't there so can't say whether I would have found the behaviour of the employee "threatening" but I think on balance I might have. I don't think she was at all unreasonable to mention it to the customer services dept. Yes she was driving the wrong way but I think most of us have done that in an empty carpark fgs!

I work in a school which has a high proportion of children with SN some of whom find it really difficult not to challenge people extremely robustly if they transgress "rules". I make every effort to help them with this, I don't just say to the children they thump "Oh, nevermind, that's just her/his way"!! The way the management responded showed that they also felt this way, they are intending to talk to the man and help him with this.

IMO OP did the right thing in mentioning it and the right thing in checking up later to ensure that the employee hadn't been dismissed.

AcaredBear she 8knew* he had Sn so yes for me that would absolutely explain his acti0ions in the given situation.

Possibly i may have mentioned to customer services but in a 'mhe could possibly benefit from a bit of a debrief' way

Well said Blu.

ScaredBear - we are talking about these particular circumstances under which the OP knew he had SN, she knew he had been working there for 10 years and he was not just some big man, he was an employee of Waitrose. She knew she had driven the wrong way, not accidently, so he was not shouting random things at her.

So under those circumstances and no other, then yes she is being unreasonable. Why compare it to a set of completely circumstances, taking away all the components of this one and holding that up to illustrate your point? It doesn't.

Im sorry but regardless of SN(?) or not I would of reported someone being up in my face shouting! As it transpires this trolly man has already been told not to police the car park and has had other people complain about how he acts...

Most of the men I knnow would hit someone if they where up in their faces shouting at them and depending on how big my balls where feeling that night I may well of hit the person and ran away into the safety of the store if I was feeling threatend

Rhubarb, it's time to get off your soap box, surely.
I think OP has kicked your Achilles heel, but she's undeserving of your anger.

NB - different again. I've worked with children who have SN too and yes it is sometimes hard to explain that they do not hit so-and-so just because they ran down the corridor instead of walking. But those are the children who have extreme social difficulties and need specialist social skills training which can help a lot. Most children with moderate learning difficulties can 'learn' correct behaviour.

You are presuming that this man may be capable of hitting out if people disobey the rules. That's a ridiculous presumption to make. Most children retailate in school by hitting but that doesn't mean they grow up to be hitters does it?