To evict my tenants?

[iloveeverton]

We rent a flat to a couple who are having a baby end of January. They have a six-month contract that ends at the same time.

The rent is always late and underpaid each month.

I want to serve notice to leave at the end of tenancy. Dh thinks it's unfair due to baby arriving at the same time. I have allowed then to pay weekly and they will be given two months notice.

Dh thinks they will have nowhere to go and I'm being heartless. Am I?

We had to use lawyers to get someone out by the way. Some tenants are so entitled.

I agree that bread is on a total wind up! Nobody could be that fucking obtuse by accident! And nobody could be that blinkered without it being on purpose.

I'm a tenant with a dodgey LL and unfit housing (Jarnas about to bite him in the arse though) .But o still pay my rent ontime bar once when I was in hospital

I would expect to get the boot if rent not paid . that's the way it works and they are not your respisorabilites if they been longstanding tenanats with good history then would been more inclined to cut slack but no not in this case

There are some sweeping assumptions being made by the ill-informed on this thread.
The assumption that landlords (regardless of the reason they became landlords) will have enough funds to support "deserving" tenants who do not pay rent.
The assumption that tenants have "human rights" and landlords don't.
The assumption that if tenants are evicted they will be out on the street, even if they have a child.
The assumption that landlords should have some sort of personal relationship with their tenants, so that they can visit, and chat, and maybe even advise on how to claim benefits.

All complete bollocks.

Advise tenants - how fluffy and nice. Problem tenants tend to know exactly what they are doing and the last person they'd like a cosy chat with is their landlord.

Reality is that some landlords will start to struggle financially quite quickly once tenants stop paying rent, or start to pay reduced rent. Particularly if they've suffered the same thing before. My friend who committed suicide had had 3 consecutive tenants play the "Oh dear I lost my job. And now I'm keeping my first 8 weeks HB" game. And each time they left she had to pay renovation costs, because as all landlords know, the non-paying tenants almost always leave a property damaged.

Landlords have to retain a certain amount of professional detachment and they have to protect their own lives and families first. It is not their job to become amateur social workers and benefits advisers. It is the landlord that stands to lose not just their rented property, but their own home, when they finally crumble under the pressure of trying to pay the mortgage on a property that hasn't made them any income for 4 months.

Push your small landlord too far and they will lose everything. You, the tenant, will obviously lose your home when it's reposessed but at least you'll be able to move on, leaving the landlord bankrupt, their life destroyed.

As a tenant and a landlord... I would NEVER not pay my rent, and if I didn't, would expect notice. I do NOT have the right to free housing. I am a responsible adult.

As a landlord... I have not renewed leases in the past, where payments have been late etc. I will NOT be taken for a mug, and cannot cover their non payment.

@ demisemiquaver - I don't think you really know me well enough to judge whether I am pretentious. As to the 'dreadful insult' of calling me a PSEUDOSOCIALIST - if you leave out the 'pseudo' you'll have hit the nail on the head. :) And no, I regard it as a compliment rather than an insult. :)

@ Sleepyspaniel etc who ask where I'd live if there were no landlords - did it not occur to you that if the 3.5 million homes in this country were not owned by private landlords, they would not simply disappear in a puff of smoke? They would still exist, and if my landlord were to sell the house I currently lived in, I'd happily buy it. The problem is that when you have loads of landlords competing with FTBs for properties (particularly when the landlords get to pay the mortgages out of untaxed income ie offset the mortgage costs against rent for tax purposes, whilst owner occupiers have to pay the mortgage from taxed income) this pushes up house prices for would-be owner occupiers.

I'd like to see a situation where everyone working can afford their own roof over their head, and those not working are guaranteed shelter via social housing. I do not think an essential and limited resource like housing should be used primarily to make a profit; any more than if food was scarce and rationed it would be reasonable to push prices sky high so that some faced starvation. In today's report (very timely) from Shelter,:

www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011/oct/13/families-unable-to-afford-rents?commentpage=1#start-of-comments

Shelter point out that "research showed that 38% of families with children who were renting privately had cut down on food to pay their rent."

We are getting close to a situation where the high cost of housing will actually start to seriously affect people's health; those of you who make a profit on your BTLs - do you sleep easy at night knowing that your tenants' children may be going short of food?

Re the clown who referred to the 'failed' attempt at a more equitable housing allocation in Eastern Germany under communism: I'd be very interested to know your response to the fact (which I'm guessing you're unaware of) that the former communists are actually extremely popular in eastern Germany and do very well in elections there. I have a number of family members from E Germany and have visited many times both under communism and since. The reality is that, whilst life under communism had many, many faults - not least lack of freedom and lack of consumer choice - many East Germans who lived through it are now deeply nostalgic for an era in which secure housing, a stable job and a safe old age were all guaranteed. And that in a country where tenants' rights and welfare are still excellent compared to here.

So everything is slightly less black-and-white than the Daily Mail would have you believe... Though that is material for another thread.

I should add the obvious - I personally have never paid rent late or short and have always looked after properties I have rented. I have, nevertheless, had some truly awful, criminal landlords.

Without hearing the tenats' side of the story, I am unwilling to condemn them out of hand - particularly when the OP's own husband - dreadful 'socialist' and 'idiot' and 'arse' though he apparently is - is actually on their side.

bread,
but if you really think the landlord is out of line evicting them, and needs to be like a charity, why do you not put your money where your mouth is, PM the OP and make up for the shortfall in rent. Do you sleep at night knowing there is a family you could help prevent from being homeless, but do not?

And in Germany people cannot afford to buy their own house until they are in their forties, neither do landlords pay tennants rent for them.

@Lucyinthepie - I agree that being a landlord has very grave risks re your financial security. That being the case, it would better if only those aware of this and able to deal with it become landlords - the fewer people who choose to become landlords (accidental or otherwise) the better, in my opinion.

For what it's worth, I don't believe all non-paying tenants should be allowed to take the mick and not pay rents indefinitely. I do, however, think that the OP's case is special, because a new baby is involved.

I'm still waiting for an answer from all those who think it outrageous that these tenants should be allowed to stay on for a couple of months when they've paid no rent, whether they think it is fair that we currently have a situation where all taxpayers - myself included - pay for owner-occupiers who fail to pay a penny on their mortgages to live in 'their' homes for up to two years. I think there should be one law for everyone, renting or buying - yet currently those with a mortgage (even if they refuse to pay anything towards it) are given vastly more leeway than those who rent. If it is 'unfair' to chuck families out of 'their' homes in one situation, it should be equally unfair in the other situation.

kelly2000 - I refer you to my earlier post. Please bother to read the thread before reposting identical questions that have already been answered.

Re Germany - I think your comment about the current situation in Germany is precisely the point I was trying to make. Hence the nostalgia for communism current in E Germany. You do seem adept at missing the point, don't you?

I've evicted a couple with a new baby. They hadn't paid their rent for several months and negotiation was not working.

Do I feel bad about it? Not a bit, I had the same age baby myself and had to go back to work at 4 months because of the missing rent.

Bread - actually I think people are given too much leeway on mortgages. However, the crucial difference is a mortgage is paid to a large financial institution who can keep afloat if a small percentage of homeowners are defaulting. A significant number of landlords are actually small business owners renting out a small number of properties who just can't afford to give the slack.

So no you have no intention of help pay their rent, but somehow you are a better person because you are saying landlords have a duty to provide homes for free if two adults decide to quit their jobs when expecting a baby to start their own business. Or as the only reason the OP is a landlord is because no-one wanted to buy her flat you could always buy it from her. Unless you are willing to help the OP with the rent or buy her flat you have no moral right to lecture her.

And I do not know what you relatives lives were like in East Germany, but when one of mine used to be allowed out for short times she used to take money back sewn into the lining of her clothes (and she was one of the lucky ones who was allowed to leave for short times). There was also a reason why it was so easy to recruit informers, people were desperate for money, and a reason why after the unification the former West Germany had to spend a fortune on East Germany. It certainly was not because East Germany was a paradise with everyone equal and everyone have comfortable lives.

and housing benefit it the support the taypayers give to those who rent of course.

Bread - I don't totally disagree with some of what you say.

HOWEVER

sticking to the particular scenario here rather than housing issues in general

I still don't see why a couple who have intentionally left their jobs, with a baby on the way, should be supported by their landlord financially and indefinitely, especially when they have made no effort to effectively communicate with the landlord and/or work out a solution. To just feed off the landlord's finances in this way is parasitic. They have attached themselves to an unsuspecting host.

Well intentioned though you are, I think you are extremely naive if you think that's fair play and just "tough", because the landlord is providing someones home, so that makes them fair game for any non-paying family out there. Can't you see how the couple in this scenario have not appeared (as far as we know) to take responsibility here?

Don't feel guilty OP, they chose to have a child when they obviously have no means of supporting the child let alone themselves. They have bought this situation upon themselves and it is them that need to get themselves out of it like adults do.

I don't know enough about the situation having only heard one side of the story, but agree that they may well have been irresponsable, and may indeed be generally irresponsible, feckless etc etc.

But that doesn't make it the baby's fault - it didn't ask to be born. I just don't see why the OP can't resolve the situation by getting future rent paid direct to them = situation resolved.

It's not the OP's job to provide a roof over their child's head though Bread. The parents need to be responsible and do this themselves.

So where do you draw the line, bread?
Do you keep throwing money at feckless parents in the vain hope they will spend it on the children rather then on themselves?

Like Labour did?

bread The OP said earlier they aren't on HB, so how can the rent be paid direct to the LL?

this thread has made me laugh I am in social housing and I can promise you if I am behind with my rent they will be very quick to apply for a court order to take back my home whether I was pregnant, had a newborn or whatever why the hell should the poor op put up with non payment or late payment, baby or not

Of course the baby didn't ask to be born but the baby is the responsibility of the parents not the LL. MY main worry is are the parents responsible enough to spend money on other things essential for a baby. So the baby would probably conversely benefit from his parents being made homeless in highlighting the plight to professionals and therefore if ( please not I did say if) they fall short in their responsibilities then the baby is protected. It is not the LL job to hide their incompetence.

You are making assumptions bread in thinking they will definitely get HB and if they did there is a good chance there would be a significant shortfall in rent. IME councils will find any excuse not to pay HB.

You are also forgetting something else bread the longer this goes on the higher the chance is of the property being repossessed is. If that happens the family will have their home sold from under them and you can be sure of one thing the mortgage company whomever they will be will show no compassion whatsoever. Then they are still homeless with the added consequence of the LL (who is lets face it the innocent party in this scenario) facing huge debts, the risk of bankruptcy and homelessness herself. Do her children not have a right to a roof over their heads.

buy em some bin bags and tell em to fook off

Breadandbutterfly - the op has stated already that the tenants do not claim hb so that is not a solution here. So as this is not an option what would you propose next?

Are you willing to cover the op's mortgage in order for this couple- who willingly made themselves unemployed and chose to have a baby - to remain rent free in someone else's home?

The only people who have caused this situation are the tenants themselves. They are not the op's responsibility. They are grown adults who need to take responsibility for themselves and their actions. They can't just keep expecting handouts and for others to pick up the pieces.

Fed- i have also worked in social housing and i knew of several cases where tenants were seveeal thousands in rent arrears but werent evicted. Some mortgage companies also wait until arrears reach a couple of thousand before evicting.