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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To evict my tenants?

191 replies

iloveeverton · 11/10/2011 18:17

We rent a flat to a couple who are having a baby end of January. They have a six-month contract that ends at the same time.

The rent is always late and underpaid each month.

I want to serve notice to leave at the end of tenancy. Dh thinks it's unfair due to baby arriving at the same time. I have allowed then to pay weekly and they will be given two months notice.

Dh thinks they will have nowhere to go and I'm being heartless. Am I?

OP posts:
Slacking9to5 · 12/10/2011 09:47

flamingredhead did you pay your rent during that time?

DejaWho · 12/10/2011 11:22

They're not paying for something that they're using. No ifs, buts, unless you feel like giving them a freebie. Trouble is if you cut them slack now on the baby thing - then it'll be "oh can't cos they've got a young child" then "can't cos they're pregnant again" and you'll end up further and further out of pocket.

TBH they sound quite deceitful that they both had jobs when they started renting and packed them in once they'd got the tenancy to try to start the business anyway.

ILoatheMickeyMouseClubhouse · 12/10/2011 12:13

I agree with whoever said that you have to conduct yourself appropriately to make sure you keep a roof over your head. Whether that means paying rent or a mortgage. The OP's tenants are making themselves homeless by behaving like entitled idiots. No way should the OP subsidise them, no way!

ILoatheMickeyMouseClubhouse · 12/10/2011 12:22

Also OP, I would contact the council to see if they are getting housing benefit. If they are getting HB and not paying their rent then they are acting fraudulently.

TheRealTillyMinto · 12/10/2011 12:39

YANBU. if you want to support an actual charity, not two people who take the pi$$ out of you.

RevoltingPeasant · 12/10/2011 13:03

Seriously, if you want harsh, how about this......

This year I was told I needed abdominal surgery. This was in the spring and our 12 AST was up in August. So when the landlord asked if we wanted to stay another year, we thought, great, means I can have the op and plenty of time to recover without having to think about moving.

Had the op in early July. 2 weeks later (on my birthday as it happened) they gave us a notice requiring possession. For various reasons it would've been impossible for us to move in Sept (DP away then) so I had to find us a house for the next month - still had stitches in, couldn't drive yet, couldn't even walk that far.

Now, that I was pissed off with. We are ideal tenants - never paid rent late, look after the place, very reasonable about access/ inspections. If these people are not paying rent, what do they expect? For all those saying the OP 'chose' to get into BTL - well, those people chose to quit their jobs to start a business, and chose to have a baby - them's the breaks, unfortunately!

dreamingbohemian · 12/10/2011 13:03

Gosh you lot are harsh.

I think you should take one step back and make one final attempt to work things out: ask them to claim HB and have it paid directly to you. This would resolve things, right?

In their situation, they are probably going to find it nearly impossible to rent another place. It is for this reason that I think you are being a bit mean -- it's not simply a case of 'move along somewhere else', you would probably be making them homeless.

I personally could not put a newborn baby out on the street. I would at least give them a three-month extension so they have a chance of finding another place, with the benefits that will kick in, the mom being able to get another job, etc.

You are not just running a business, this isn't as simple as kicking out some patrons who won't pay their bar bill. You are providing a home, which gives you an immense amount of power over people's lives. I don't think it's wrong to inject some morality into your decisions here.

dreamingbohemian · 12/10/2011 13:07

I take it no one on this thread has ever donated to a homeless charity? How do you think people become homeless? They're not all drunks and dope addicts, it's regular people like this who make a couple of bad decisions and get chucked out by the private sector.

ILoatheMickeyMouseClubhouse · 12/10/2011 13:12

Dreamingbohemian, the OP has said that they are struggling financially paying the mortgage on the flat whilst the tenants aren't paying. Like someone else said, the couple chose to give up their jobs. Is it everyone's right to just give up their job or spend their money on other things and expect others to bail them out and pay their rent for them? Should this couple be exempt from water bills too? Council tax? electricity bills? food costs? should they get given all their baby equipment/nappies/formula by people that have marginally more money than them? Where does it stop? At the end of the day as adults we have to be responsible for ourselves and keeping a roof over our heads.

If the OP had chosen to, say, sponsor a family and pay their housing costs then fair enough, but she hasn't. She is renting out a flat and needs the rental income to pay the mortgage. She has been forced into supporting these people financially, which isn't fair.

EllaDee · 12/10/2011 13:12

Don't be ridiculous dreaming. That's a really rude comment.

I donate to charity, and my brother works fully time for a charity in London that deals with homeless people. He was in tears last weekend because one of his regular people committed suicide. They are getting their funding cut again by the government and he is worried all the time about the people they can't afford to help. So don't pretend you have the faintest idea whether or not I donate to homless charities. Angry

It has nothing to do with one private landlady deciding she cannot renew the contract of non-paying tenants.

belledechocchipcookie · 12/10/2011 13:13

I'd tell them to apply for housing benefit. You can get it paid directly to you if they are useless at paying on time. If they refuse to do this then I would not renew their tennancy. They will be homeless if you can't afford to pay the mortgage because they are not paying enough rent anyway. Your not being harsh, you're trying to pay your mortgage.

EllaDee · 12/10/2011 13:13

Btw, not sure what it is about being a drunk or a dope addict you imagine it is that somehow makes it ok that they're on the streets.

Minus273 · 12/10/2011 13:35

Where has anyone mentioned being a drunk or a dope addict until your post dreaming.

I have donated to homeless charities in the past as it happens. I can't at the moment as I am technically homeless and can't afford donations at present. As I mentioned in a previous post I myself am 7months pregnant. I would be sleeping rough if family had not given a room. I don't think I made particularly poor choices DH was made redundant after I fell pregnant. Granted it wasn't completely out of the blue but tbh alarm bells didn't start to ring until I was 18 weeks gone as until then his department had expansion plans leading up until 2015.

I am still on the OPs side, she only ended up renting out her property as she couldn't get it sold. She has already explained she is struggling. She herself should not risk becoming homeless because of someone else's poor choices. AFAIC when you sign a lease as well as the obvious legal obligation you have a moral obligation to pay your rent and other bills. If you can't pay you get out. I didn't wait until I was in arrears. I went to the agent and explained about redundancy and was honest that I wouldn't be able to pay. I then scrimped to pay for my notice period as I felt I should pay for it as an honest person.

dreamingbohemian · 12/10/2011 13:45

Ella, of course I'm not saying it's okay for addicts to be on the streets. My uncle is currently a homeless crack addict so I'd be the last person to say that.

I meant to challenge the idea that the homeless are all mentally ill or addicts who you might expect to have a hard time finding housing -- they are also people who suffer from a few bad decisions and thus could be said to be homeless through their own fault, just like the couple in this thread.

I don't see how you can donate to a homeless charity but also tell the OP it's okay to make this couple homeless (which her own husband expects will happen) simply because it's their own fault for being homeless. Lots of homeless people could have prevented their situation had they made different choices, but now they are suffering -- it's not like the homeless charities come along and say, oh it's your own fault, we won't help you.

I'm sorry about your brother's client. I didn't mean to upset you.

I just think the OP is in a position to prevent a family being homeless, which is no small thing.

dreamingbohemian · 12/10/2011 13:48

Sorry, re-reading my post it does sound bad, I was being sarcastic with the 'they're not all addicts' but obviously that doesn't come through.

ILoatheMickeyMouseClubhouse · 12/10/2011 13:49

But by preventing a family becoming homeless, she risks her own financial and home's security. Why should she have to prevent this family from becoming homeless? They could have done that themselves simply by paying their rent every month.

kelly2000 · 12/10/2011 13:49

Seems the solution is obvious, pm dreaming and bread and they will make up for the shortfall in rent.

sausagesandmarmelade · 12/10/2011 13:50

Of course YANBU!

You are not responsible for their plight, they are! They are also responsible for late payments...so only have themselves to blame.

Definitely tell them now that you won't be renewing their contract.

Hopefully they will do the decent thing and leave of their own accord, rather than waiting to be evicted.

EllaDee · 12/10/2011 13:55

I just don't think it is the OP's responsibility, dreaming. I don't think it is right for her to lose out because this couple are not paying rent. Ultimately, if they carry on like this expecting individuals to bail them out, they will run into trouble sooner or later. That's why I don't think it is right that she should feel obliged to make allowances for them.

I'm really sorry to hear about your uncle - you are right, I was responding while upset. It's just that I am not likely to think homeless people are drunks/drug addicts, nor do I think people who are, don't deserve help. They do.

If private individuals feel obliged to help out, then the system is actually weakened. I do get angry about tenants' rights and the cost of housing in this country too, don't think I don't, but I don't think this is the way to solve the problem.

5littleducks · 12/10/2011 14:02

I don't think YABU - I can see why it makes DH uneasy and I would feel about it but I'm afraid that I would evict them too.

If you get the ball moving now then at least they will have a fighting chance of getting something else sorted before the baby comes and TBH I think it would be much less disruptive for a baby than for an older baby/toddler to be moving around/living in temporary accommodation.

The fact of the matter is you should not be expected to fund their accommodation. FWIW I support a homeless charity.

dreamingbohemian · 12/10/2011 14:09

Thanks Ella, and again I'm sorry I upset you by being flippant like that.

I do agree with what you say. I'm not saying the tenants are right, or that it's okay not to pay rent. I'm not saying she should let them stay forever. I just think evicting a family with a newborn is pretty, well, callous and I could not personally do it. I would at least wait a few months.

I understand she is losing money, but given that her own husband does not want to evict them, I'm assuming it's not a dramatic amount or something that would risk their financial security.

Lauzifer · 12/10/2011 14:14

I'm a tennant myself and i think the OP is NBU. If i didn't pay my rent and didn't contact my landlady and explain the situation and try to come to some agreement i would expect to be evicted.
Why should the OP put herself in financial trouble to keep a roof over the heads of a couple who decided to give up their jobs and have a baby? The sense of entitlement that some people have is outrageous.
Myself and DP moved into rented accommodation when i was heavily pregnant and we knew that our first priority was to pay the rent. The couple in question are making themselves homeless by not paying their rent and the OP shouldn't be expected to house them for nothing.

dreamingbohemian · 12/10/2011 14:19

Okay just to be clear, I've been a tenant myself for more than 20 years, I've always paid the rent on time. Even when I was totally skint and living on beans, I never missed the rent. And I would never expect a landlord to let me live somewhere rent-free, I would expect to be evicted.

I would say the OP is NBU if there was not a baby involved. But there is. And I just couldn't do it.

EllaDee · 12/10/2011 14:29

Thanks dreaming - I'm sorry I snapped back, too.

I don't agree with you, but I take your point that the OP's husband is obviously feeling they can afford to lost the money.

NotFromConcentrate · 12/10/2011 14:30

YANBU, OP.

That's not to say it's an easy decision for you to make, or that the situation is not unpleasant for all those involved, but it's definitely not unreasonable.

Bread is being particularly unreasonable. If you wanted to adopt that same black-and-white attitude, you could say that the OP's tenants should have thoguht more carefully about having a new baby at the same time as coping with a failing business and no steady income. But then we're all long enough in the tooth to realise life isn't quite that clear cut.