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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To evict my tenants?

191 replies

iloveeverton · 11/10/2011 18:17

We rent a flat to a couple who are having a baby end of January. They have a six-month contract that ends at the same time.

The rent is always late and underpaid each month.

I want to serve notice to leave at the end of tenancy. Dh thinks it's unfair due to baby arriving at the same time. I have allowed then to pay weekly and they will be given two months notice.

Dh thinks they will have nowhere to go and I'm being heartless. Am I?

OP posts:
EllaDee · 11/10/2011 22:21

bread, I think your response is a bit odd.

I don't think the OP is into BTL. And even if she were, you often need a different kind of mortgage agreement to rent to people who claim housing benefit - it is quite possible she can't wait for benefits to kick in. But this is besides the point - the OP is not a charity!

Sleepyspaniel · 11/10/2011 22:30

Bread - in your opinion, how long should the OP financially support these people?

And currently, the OP is currently not making any profit, in fact she is making a loss.

Morally right is a two-way street. Had the tenants come to her explaining they were in financial difficulties then they could have possibly worked out a solution together in advance. The OP doesn't suggest that the tenants have reasonably tried to work anything out with her.

Are you seriously suggesting the OP should bankroll tenants out of her own pocket We don't know the OP's finances but it comes across that you think the OP can afford to offer the tenants somewhere free to live whilst she is paying the mortage, and is being tight and immoral(!) by not doing so. What if the OP is just surviving herself? What if the OP has children to feed/could get into difficulties with her own mortgage/rent? Should she wait until she's on her uppers before pulling the plug on the tenants? What if the tenants don't pay any rent until the baby is 4 months old... is the OP still being immoral to either expect all rent OR get paying tenants?

What I'm getting at is that bringing down another person financially is not morally right either. What's your view on that??

Original poster
iloveeverton · 11/10/2011 23:42

Just wrote a long reply and lost it!

Lots of things to look into- solicitor has mentioned accelerated possession so I'll google that.

My dh thinking along same lines as breadandbutterfly but things are tight for us and my whole wage is swallowed by this mortgage. I'm not that charitable to work 3 days a week to pay for someone else's housing. Sorry.

OP posts:
Original poster
iloveeverton · 11/10/2011 23:43

Also I have spoken to them from the word go allowing compromise over deposit and allowing them to pay weekly even though I pay the mortgage upfront.

They say they don't claim housing benefit.

OP posts:
JjandtheBeanlovesUnicorns · 12/10/2011 00:18

If you can prove they haven't been paying its far easier to get them out.

Our psl was sold out from under us and being niave we left on being asked we now know we should have dug our heels in. Our housing officer ran through this that and the other and said they couldn't have evicted us at speed as there was no case against us etc, the other family had £2000 of arrears were out on there ear withing 2mnths

That said I don't know how people can stay when they're not paying or have been asked to leave,

ZonkedOut · 12/10/2011 06:33

I was 7.5 months pregnant when given 2 months notice on our rented house (landlord sold the house, we were told on day of completion). It wasn't fun, and we ended up moving further away than we wanted, but it was the landlord's prerogative, so we left. And we were excellent tenants.

Being pregnant shouldn't mean you can shirk your responsibilities. And it will presumably mean they won't be made homeless, too - it might be better for them than if she wasn't pregnant.

sunnydelight · 12/10/2011 06:40

You are not evicting them, you are just not renewing the tenancy agreement so of course YANBU.

Bucharest · 12/10/2011 06:51

OP- my Mum is more or less in the same situation as you, she joint owns a few houses with my cousin, and one of their tenants moved in last September and hasn't paid a full month's rent since.
Their first s21 (done by the agent) was dated wrong and so they are now in the process again. On the advice of the solicitor they went for straightforward "we want the house back, no reason given" rather than mentioning the arrears to avoid the "if we pay you back £5 a week for the next 5 years can we stay" scenario.

I think it's best to let an agent/solicitor deal with it, as the small print and loopholes can be a nightmare. (although as you can see from above, it was the agent who bollixed up my Mum's first s21)

Good luck.

If your tenants end up on the streets perhaps Bread can let them live rent with her?

Bucharest · 12/10/2011 06:53

rent free with her.

Iggly · 12/10/2011 07:00

I don't think there's anything wrong with at least considering the human element of this.

My logically brain says yes, get rid of them because you're losing money. My softy brain says that's fucking harsh.

This is why I hate the letting market in this country.

AisforAcorn · 12/10/2011 07:05

I am a tenant and If I didn't pay my rent I would expect to be told to leave. That is just how it is, pregnant or not.

2 months is plenty long enough to find somewhere else to live.

hermionejgroooaaanger · 12/10/2011 07:27

It's been said before - but you are not evicting them - simply not renewing their tenancy agreement. I rented from an agency and had my notice to quit at the beginning of the 6-month AST, every time I had an AST! It's a 6-month contract with an end date. It is not up to you to make arrangements for them to look after their child. YADNBU. And good luck!

Lucyinthepie · 12/10/2011 08:43

As a landlord here's my advice. Always evict non-paying tenants, regardless of their circumstances. Obviously you might give them a bit of leeway once if they're having a bad month, but I've found that people mucking about with rent is nearly always a good indication that they will muck you about long term. And probably leave just when you've spent a lot of money on getting them evicted, leaving a mess behind that you have to pay to clear up.
If you've already started action your DH needs to stop talking to them, because he's only going to muddy the waters, which isn't fair on them.
For those who think that landlords should somehow cushion and support those who don't pay their rent - get real. Most of the landlords you meet on these sort of forums are normal people who own one or two properties and need the income in. They might be able to support a property with zero income for 2, maybe 3 months, if they are lucky maybe even longer. However it doesn't take long before a property with non-paying tenants becomes a real liability, and the mortgage companies are completly unsympathetic and unhelpful.

Op - if non-paying tenants would quickly compromise your ability to pay the mortgage on the property you can't afford to be soft about this. It can take months to evict someone and every month you have to pay the mortgage. Alternatively they will finally move out when your rented property is reposessed as part of your bankruptcy proceedings and sail on to their next let without giving you another thought. So do what you need to do and keep a close eye on your financial reserves.
I'll probably be condemned for posting in this fashion but I really don't care. I saw a friend destroyed financially by having tenants in both of her two modest properties mucking her about with rent at the same time. Every month the pressure of paying the mortgages built up on her and eventually she took her own life. Everyone - just think - how long can anyone be expected to support a property with no income from it? 3 months? 6? And after the rogue tenants eventually leave, the loss resulting from supporting the properties doesn't go away, you rent out again, but you could have a loss of £1,000's by then. In my opinion nobody is entitled to live rent-free in someone else's property and do that to them.

Lucyinthepie · 12/10/2011 08:46

How about turning this on it's head? Tenants know they are renting from a private landlord with one property who needs the rent to pay the mortgage. And yet they have decided not to pay rent, and to be awkward about moving out, which they know will involve the landlord in even expnditure. That's fucking harsh. Maybe the tenants should consider the human element in this.
Op is human.

TheQueenOfDeDead · 12/10/2011 09:00

Interesting thread I am having this dilema.

I let my old home (living overseas). The tenant is a PITA, everything is an issue and the rent is always a couple of days late, without explanation/apology.

I have a no pets clause due to the house being partly furnished and not wanting them damaged. I later gave my consent to her keeping cat.

Now I find out she has gone and got a puppy Angry

I am seriously considering not renewing the lease come the end of the period but it coincides with her having a baby so feeling a bit lot guilty.

Lucyinthepie · 12/10/2011 09:06

Queen, obviously your choice, but if you're getting rent every month, even if it's a couple of days late, then I'd be reluctant to evict. Depends on the area you're in, and how long you can afford a "void" period to be. On the other hand, it does sound as if she's just taking everything a bit for granted, as she doesn't contact you and has also gone and got a puppy.
Are you using an agent that does regular property inspections? It sounds as if it might be handy to have an idea on how the property is being looked after and if the puppy is an issue. Maybe briefing the agent to do a thorough inspection would be a good idea?
We've allowed tenants in a house to get a little dog. Normally it's "no pets", but we know these tenants are absolute gems, they look after the place really well. So we think we can rely on them to be houseproud enough for it not to be a problem.

Lucyinthepie · 12/10/2011 09:08

Notice I've ignored the fact that she's pregnant. It is up to her to conduct herself in a way that means the roof over her head is secure. Not you.

addictediam · 12/10/2011 09:15

We were given notice when dd was a few days old, yes it was stressful (and we were paying rent) but that's life, its not up to you to worry about their circumstances, if they are not paying rent they should expect it.

ilovesprouts · 12/10/2011 09:23

if the on hb the rent get payed to them now not the landlords

aldiwhore · 12/10/2011 09:26

On one hand they're a struggling couple going through a rough patch with a baby on the way. So I can see why you'd feel 'mean'. If it was just a rough patch I'd really try and work something out with them, ask them to apply for housing benefit etc., and accept that you will struggle to get full rent for a while. I hate to think where we'd have ended up had our then Landlord not given us a little grace when we fell on hard times. It took us 4 months to sort out help, and about 6 before we were back on an even keel... we bit the bullet and applied for HB, and took out a loan to cover our arrears.

On the other, it doesn't sound like they're being very proactive, they haven't offered YOU any solution and gave their jobs up to start a business without savings to pay rent and bills for a while to see them through. They're not seeking alternative ways of paying you and it doesn't seem like you're a priority to them (a roof over our heads was THE priority when we were in shit AND I was also pregnant!).

From what you've said I don't think YABU, though from your OP you did sound it.

I think if you balance out the emotional obligations to another human being, with your own requirements (rent) the you have been reasonable enough.

Flamingredhead · 12/10/2011 09:35

court order varies I was served a section 21 as I would not sign new lease as his rent increase was very big were talking £500 a month increase as he reckone dhe get that ( lol not chance in hell he was trying to be greedy as was hoping council would pay as finding me anywhere thats almost as suitabloe be hard as this is a 4 bed bungalow ) and property in poor state of repair plus he refused to allow adaptions (fair enough) .

But I informed that council are in middle of building adapted property for me and dc they filed the evidence at court and court have said that i have 16 weeks before he can apply for baliffs due to circumstances oh and that rent wise he is only going to get the same as what we have been paying

Slacking9to5 · 12/10/2011 09:37

If you are late paying your mortgage the building society comesdown on you very quickly.

I cannot fathom why some tenants think it's okay not to pay or not pay enough or pay late.

You are not being remotely unreasonable, give them notice that you will not be renewing their tanancy, give no reason and don;t communicate with them again unless written.

loveglove · 12/10/2011 09:37

YANBU - Bread is an idiot. It's not up to you to provide free housing for people unwilling to work a solution out.

I'd love to know what they were thinking trying to start a business and getting pregnant at the same time. WTF? At least one of them should have stayed in employment for security.

Bread would have a point if you weren't trying to work with the tenant but you are.

Flamingredhead · 12/10/2011 09:38

ohg and ju8st to point out was not scamming LL compared to elsewhere he is getting reasonable rent and infact if council had not got anywhere they was going to get a fair rent check done due to the repair

maxybrown · 12/10/2011 09:41

Some buy to let insirance does not cover the landlord if the tenants get HB - that would need to be checked out first! Hence why so many LL don't accept HB, not just becuase they assume all people claiing HB are low life Hmm

So, bread- I guess you are the sort who thinks that one of my neighbours, who doesn't claim her partner lives with her, gets every benefit under the sun, no rent or CT to pay, free prescriptions, free milk/veg, free school meals for the eldest two. gets to eat her lunch out everyday, spends hundreds on having her kids bedrooms done up with all brand new stuff, and now the latest, free part time nursery place for the 2 year old and free stair gates fomr the council - isn't doing anyone any harm?

I have been a tenant for years, many times we have had to move becuase the owner wanted their house back, yes it is stressful, but yes that is the way it goes - ESPECIALLY when they are not even paying their rent! I remember when my old boyfriend and I were renting, and we got into some difficulty and we immediatley qwent to see our landlord and were very embarrassed about it all. He let us spread it out a bit, but we made sure we bloody well caught up - because for us, not paying our rent was also very very stressful because we have morals.

IN fact why don't we all just get to live in our houses for free? there's an idea!

The OP is renting to pay the mortgage because at the time it didn't sell, so instead of them sorting themselves out, she should go to work purely to kjeep them in accomodation, just because they are having a baby? Yes I have moved when due in 3 weeks, yes it is stressful, that's life! Moving house can be stressful anyway, but it doesn't give you the right to get something for nothing.

Do they go into Tesco and be allowed to take all of their shopping for free?