To evict my tenants?

[iloveeverton]

We rent a flat to a couple who are having a baby end of January. They have a six-month contract that ends at the same time.

The rent is always late and underpaid each month.

I want to serve notice to leave at the end of tenancy. Dh thinks it's unfair due to baby arriving at the same time. I have allowed then to pay weekly and they will be given two months notice.

Dh thinks they will have nowhere to go and I'm being heartless. Am I?

Do you have any idea how much a homeless family will cost the taxpayer? Fing thousands.

With tenants it's better the devil you know. Get them down to cab for a benefits/ debt check and tell them to apply for hb.

Not all homeless families cost the taxpayer money. We aren't costing the taxpayer anything atm.

The main difference is it is the welfare state's duty to help those in need not the OP as an individual. Therefore the cost to the taxpayer in terms of benefits should not factor in the OP's decision.

Tt will be difficult to evict them, particularly since they have a new born baby on the way. I would get them out asap. I have a friend who is going through marital difficulties with her dh, because the tenants have not paid rent for six months. The tenant has had difficulties with work etc. My friend has been very sympathetic, but the stress is now getting to her.
She is hoping to recoup some of the money owed, but i firmly believe that she will not get anything back.
It is a very sad situation, becaue her tenant is a decent enough man. However, my friend is not running a charity, she has a mortgage to pay.
I peronally think that you should not renew the contract as your tenants do not seem like sensible people;leaving their jobs etc.

dreamingbohemian, you are being very willing to spend the OP's money for her. Do you think that is fair?

So, by my reckoning the tenants moved in in August, 3 months pregnant, gave up their jobs (which presumably the kept only to provide proof of income to get the tenancy). They then claim to have started a business which has failed pretty damn near immediately, since this is only October. (I say claim because two months is not very long, surely you would regard it as still getting off the ground at this point?) Rent is always late and UNDERPAID.

On what planet would you choose to have these people rent your property, the one you wanted to sell but couldn't? That you're only renting because you can't afford to pay the mortgage without the rental income? Because they just don't sound to me to be the types to take care of the property, do they? They lie. They (IMO) steal.

OP, YANBU and I hope you get them out ASAP.

I don't understand why the tenants are not claiming housing benefit; surely if they do, and get it paid to the OP, the problems will all be resolved and noone will need to be made homeless.

As dreaming has said, there is a baby involved here, that realistically WILL HAVE NO HOME TO GO TO. That may be the tenants' fault as much as the landlady's, however at the end of the day, I stick by my point that renting a home is NOT the same as selling any other (non-essential) commodity. This family will not have the option of just moving in somewhere else if made homeless from here. If they can't afford the rent now, where are they going to get 1-2 months rent as deposit, plus another months rent uppfront, plus fees from? And I daresay this landlord's great reference will make it that much easier.

The fact is that this baby did not ask to be born and does not deserve to be born in a gutter, no matter how irresponsible its parents may or may not be (NOTE: we've not heard their side of the story at all; there may be a v good reason why they haven't paid the rent that is not their fault; the landlord may not be telling the full story here).

I repeat - if you become a landlord, your responsibilities are not just about collecting the rent and paying it into your bank account, as some people seem to think. You are providing someone's HOME. That matters, beyond a financial level. If you don't like this, make money in less emotive ways, providing a less essential service.

maxybrown's attempts at analogy left me cold - not really clear what she was getting at. A better analogy would be the health service - in this country, because it is a civilised one, our hospitals will help anyone sick who comes to them in urgent need of medical assistance, and worry about the bill later. In the US, they won't treat you until they've seen your insurance certificate. Some people may argue that's fine and as it should be. I would argue that is fundamentally inhumane.

And no, well-researched arguments such as calling me an 'idiot' won't make change my mind on this.

OP. Your husband is right, and you should be proud of having married such a caring guy. Or 'idiot', as others would see it.

lucy I should have made it clear that month on month her rent is paid later so the accumulative effect over the past year is that she is now about 7 weeks in arrears.

It is not the lateness that bothers me so much as the total fucked up sense of entitlement that she seens no issue with paying me when it suits her.

Bread - do feel free to join the rest of us in the real world when you feel up to it.

Better still - you go out and buy a property for someone to live in rent free. How's that for an idea.

For those that support the tenants it might also be worth bearing in mind that this is precisely the reason why L/L's ask for excessive deposits and a strong employment record and are often reluctant to rent to young families, preferring double income professionals.

breadandbutterfly "That may be the tenants' fault as much as the landlady's" - NO! It is ALL the tenants' fault.

"If you don't like this, make money in less emotive ways, providing a less essential service." - OP is not 'making money'. She is trying to cover the mortgage on a property she tried to sell but couldn't. She is a reluctant landlord through necessity, not doing it as a business.

And frankly, if you don't want to be called an idiot, don't say idiotic things.

'If you become a landlord, your responsibilities are not just about collecting the rent and paying it into your bank account, as some people seem to think. You are providing someone's HOME. That matters, beyond a financial level. If you don't like this, make money in less emotive ways, providing a less essential service.'

I agree bread, tis what I was trying to get at earlier.

I live in France at the mo, it's actually illegal to evict families in the winter months, no matter what they do. The tenant rights here are pretty amazing, I think because they indeed do see housing as not just 'running a business.'

And as for baby will be born into the gutter - what the fuck? Never heard so much shit in my life!

Quite, Bats. I'm pretty sure it will be an NHS hospital. They will have Social Services people there to deal with homelessness.

THE TENANTS ARE NOT THE OP'S RESPONSIBILITY.

breadandbutterfly and dreamingbohemian - we have yet to witness you offering to cover the shortfall for the OP. Or do you not believe in putting your money where your mouths are?

Of course they're not WhereYouLeftIt - anyone with a quarter of a brain can see that. It's been said many times on this thread - the OP IS NOT running a charity. The OP did not choose for this feckless couple to leave their jobs, get pregnant, fail a business and not pay their rent. That lot is the sole responsibility of the tenants - and people wonder why we have a culture of 'it's always someone else's fault'. Unbelievable.

Whereyouleftit The OP's husband is apparently willing to cover the shortfall -- he doesn't want to evict them. So she's got that covered right there.

I have indeed helped pay the rent for friends before, even when it was their own stupid fault for not having the money.

Hand on heart, I would not evict someone with a newborn. I would have done way more than the OP to get some money out of them -- talked to them about housing benefit, give them a chance to get a co-sponsor, anything.

Because of the way she has handled it, she is likely not going to get anything at all out of them until they are evicted. A softer approach and she would have gotten something at least, then she could have evicted them in a few more months.

Bread I have never given anyone here one of these, so have my first [biscuit.] Do you know the OP's situation? You are assuming that she is rolling in cash from all this renting as all LLs are . I am also a landlord, by the time the tenant pays rent I still have to make up a £200 shortfall in the mortage, the reason that we are LLs is that DH was moved to another country with work and we could not sell our home, it was on the market for over a year, so decided to rent it out while renting a home in the country we have moved to.

Iloveeverton I am so sorry for your situation. I can understand exactly what you are going through as I have just endured a year of hell due to something similar. We rented our home a year ago to an elderly lady in December last year, she moved in other relatives and stopped paying rent in March - for no reason other than the law actually allows her to do this. She finally moved out two weeks ago without paying us a penny. We started immediatly after non payment with a section 21 which she did not acknowledge and remained in the property after the expiry of this. Our court date came through last week for the end of November. If she had not moved out of her own accord we would have been owed 8 months rent. We will never see this money again, nor the money we paid for solicitors, or the money we spent last week putting our house back to normal - it had to be gutted both inside and out, new carpets and everything. I am still devestaed. I had visits from three different ballifs in one day. It has been the most awful year and we could do nothing to stop her - everytime we went near the house she dialled 999 and accused us of harrassement. Luckily the police advised her that it was our property and we could come every day if we liked looking for rent (we didn't owing to us living an 8 hour journey away).

If your tenant decides to play it this way it will be so hard for your family, the strain on your marriage it unimaginable and it will feel like this is all you think about and talk about but I really hope they move out without you going through this. If they don't all I can say is it will end and you will survive.

By the way bread I was pregnant while going through the above, but who gives a fuck about my baby eh, I was providing someone with a home! Funnily enough I posted here at the time and all the responses were kind (under my previous nickname). DS1 got a new pair of shoes for his birthday as he needed them and we couldn't afford anything else. We almost lost everything - but I didn't miss our rent payment once, I was never a day late.

Sorry, that was a mega post - and quite theraputic!

really, they both left their jobs when the woman was already pregnant (so giving up mat leave benefits), they didn't plan how they would pay their rent while they built their business, they didn't pay their rent and didn't claim HB, they have rather just assumed the OP will sort out their housing for them. They took on this contract and agreed to pay a monthly rent, they should plan to actually pay it.

There's another thread running with a woman who's DH wants to just set up another company and seems to think it'll just all sort it's self out re paying the bills and she's tearing her hair out about it and begging him to get a proper job. What is it with people who've watched a few episodes of dragons den and think they can live their dreams, that working for someone else is beneath them and just assume someone else will come along and sort out the dull bill paying stuff?

Dreams are all good and well, but this couple are finding the hard way, in the grown up world, you need to pay your bills too.

they have brought this on themselves, they had jobs that paid the bills and they decided to not do them anymore. Why should the OP's family finances suffer?

I assume you don't use an agency Op?

Bread, two things, one, not all LL's rent to make money, most of us have had to rent as we are in negative equity, if my tenants don't pay the rent the mortgage is not paid, so how does that help anyone? Secondly our LA will not pay the LL direct, it is paid to the tenants, afaik, most LAs pay HB this way.

We took a tiny sum as a deposit from our tenants as I liked them (not a good idea really I know) and we accepted a reference from one of their mums as they did not work.

However, they still pay late every month and we've had to explain to them that we just can't cover the late mortgage payment each time.

Please don't assume that all LL are spawn of the devil to make money out of those on benefits, that's crap.

breadandbutterfly

You say....
"As dreaming has said, there is a baby involved here, that realistically WILL HAVE NO HOME TO GO TO. That may be the tenants' fault as much as the landlady's."

Weather good in fairyland today is it ?

Parents and the state have a responsibility to provide homes for children, not unrelated parties. A landlord's responsibility is to provide a decently maintained home in exchange for an agreed and fair market rent - that is where it ends

The parents-to-be are acting irresponsibly and failing to provide stability of home life for their as yet unborn child.

Don't you see this ?

Emotional blackmail is not a responsible way to provide a roof over anyone's head.

If the tenants want a home for them to come home to from the post natal ward they need to get their finger out and sort it, not freeload off anyone else.

Landlords such as the OP are known as "accidental landlords", they didn't set out to be a landlord and make money from it as a business, the rent pays mortgage and insurance, lack of rent causes problems as the mortgage company don't accept non-payment of rent by tenant as a valid excuse for getting behind with mortgage, stress and worry piles on the OP and her family, poor credit rating, getting in debt etc.

Right thanks again for everyones advice and sorry to hear people have been in these situations on both sides.

My dh and my jobs are by no means secure and what savings we had went into the deposit for our new home.

We didnt use a letting agent but did checks and had a tenancy drawn up by a solicitor.

I'm a tenant, have had a dreadful LL and now have a lovely one.

I work in inventories, I check tenants in and out of rental properties almost every day of the week.

the personal circumstances of your tenants is personal to them. You have been kind and understanding thus far, but you would be an utter FOOL to renew the tenancy when this AST is up.

Stick to your guns, tell them that the tenancy won't be renewed, and that while you will give them the full notice required by law, if they are able to vacate sooner, so that they are in a new place before the arrival of the baby, that you will accommodate this in anyway you can.

You could even entertain writing off the debt they owe you if they leave ASAP.... Discuss this with your solicitor, you can do a deed of surrender to end an AST before the 6m.

Of course LL have responsibilities. They have the responsibility not to bother the tenant unnecessarily and to keep the property in a good state of repair. They do not have a responsibility to keep a roof over someone's head for free. Especially if that is putting the LL in danger of financial difficulty and perhaps bankruptcy and homelessness themselves.

I'm a tenant and a landlord.

The flat I rent out loses me 300quid/ month but I want to keep it so I pay up. If my tenant started dicking me around by not paying their rent I would quickly be in a financial mess.

Equally I pay my rent on time. I have recently found out that the previous tenants in the flat I rent were asked to leave for non payment/ late payment/ reduced payment of rent. All the signs in the flat and in the administrative mess they left behind indicate that they were not good tenants.

I have recently threatened to pay reduced rent which precipitated a meeting with a senior bod at the letting agency. This was illuminating as it transpires that I had been labelled as a crazy lady by the admin staff reponsible for this property were complaining ++ about the number of e.mails I was sending but failing to pass on the content and my very reasonable complaints. We now have an action plan agreed to deal with the issues and the most pressing have been resolved completely.

In all honesty I feel quite sorry for my landlord. I know what he paid for this place and the yield is low. Due to the previous tenants irresponsibility and failure to report problems he has going to have some massive bills in the coming months for maintenance and he has already had to replace several items of furniture and one appliance which were only 3 years old.