to find some people attitudes, such as "i work hard i deserve it" really sickening

[carriedababi]

was reading some magazine in the dentist, there was a woman from dragons den iin the mag.
saying how she had a wardrode worth 3 million.

and she went onto say well i work hard for it.
so ideserve it.
and something todo with she sees her expensive clothes as a symbol of how sucessful she is.

really made me feel sick, how a horrible nasty attitude to have in life.

i'm sure even if i was a millionaire, i would not be proud about spending that much on clothes.

i don't know its just the arrogant im entitled to this that got me.
and dont they think people how have less also work hard. probably alot of them work alot harder

what do you think

That depends.
Sometimes wealthy men are quite creative and can hide their assets evry well (for example saying they are an asset of the company).

And of course women who receive generous periodical payments from their ex will only receive them while their ex is earning well. If he is made redundant, simply give sit all up, dies or takes ill, the PPs are in jeopardy.

Yes and it's not just divorce. We are in the worst recession since the 1929 crash, possibly moving into even worse than then. Many many women and men are losing their jobs. The safe lawyer in M&A on the highish salary might be out on his ear next week bemoaning the day he ever "let" his lawyer wife give up work whilst the family sell the house and learn to live on benefits.

Right little ray of sunshine, aren't we Xenia?

Where would a single mother be if she lost her job, then?

A single parent would be in deep shit if they lost their job. But even deeper shit if they had no career and no recent work experience.

In fairness anyone can be placed in that position anyway- being married to someone who becomes sick or a carer.

But absolutely you can try to keep yourself marketable: been stuck at home as a carer for years now but always been studying even when I can't get out the house, don't like standing still even if it is just for me. Good for the soul even if you never call on it.

In a two parent family, the other parent could return to work ( I certainly could, I quite often get calls).

In a single parent family that won't be the case. So for all Xenia's banging on about vulnerable SAHM's, the horrible irony is that she and her family are actually more vulnerable.

Well slack as long as you're okay...

peachy I think that's right. We are all responsible for our DC and have to try to minimise our risk of not being able to support them in any ways we can. Sometimes that will be easier than others.

Lol wordfactory what an odd comment!

You and Xenia have been waxing lyrical bout how vulnerable all SAHM's are and when someone turns around and puts you straight, you say, " Well, it's okay for you!"

It's rather arrogant and blinkered to make assumptions about other people's situations.

50% of married people stay married. most women afetr divorce are worse off. Clearly many women do keep working to protect themselves from having to depend on male earnings and that can be very wise. I am not sure what the objection is? Married or single people are better off if they work materially unless they could only earn less than childcare would cost without any hope of promotion in a month of Sundays.

What housewives can do to protect themselves is have copies of every P60 and P45, ensure they 50% own all shares their husbands own in companies, try to get on the board even if only nominally in small family companies, see copies of everything and keep them, have totally open access to all bank accounts and copies of statements, make sure there is insurance and wills and all that stuff.

That's deeply out of order Dandy.

(Oh, also slightly tongue in cheek - ensure you give your husband good sex. The number of men who leave their wives simply because there is no sex at home or not good sex is quite high. )

Xenia! tell me that's not why your hubby left you?

Agreed georgiemama. This is an internet forum, it's not bloody gospel, you should take everything with a large pinch of salt.

minipie, my dh works in M&A in the City . He is in a senior role and amongst his peers, there's only one other person I think who has a working wife, everyone else has a sah wife (they're all men). His colleagues tend to have home lives where their wives (sah) pick up the slack on the home and child front as they work such crazy hours. I also have a senior role and to put in law firm speak he is the equivalent of newish equity partner and I am the equivalent of more experienced equity partner with a management role. What this means is that if left to it, he would happily leave me to do his share of everything because that's what he sees around him and that's what would make his life easier, but I am fairly insistent on him doing his fair share. As I say to him we would all like a "wife".

In terms of how we make thing work. 1. We have some ground rules - firstly, most days we have breakfast together as family and play with the kids before work. It means we both tend to clear emails on the way in. Second, unless they're closing, I insist that he gets home for story time with the kids. He usually gets back on the conference calls after we have had dinner. We even managed to go on holiday while he had about 10 deals on, so yes interrupted by conf calls and the laptop came with us but he only got that out at night after kids had gone to bed. Third, on the weekend he makes sure that he spends quality time with us during the day, even if I watch Strictly with the sound of him tapping away at the laptop. :)

1. We have a lot of help - our nanny lives in because we could both get pulled onto a conference call with new york just as we are leaving work so a nursery or childminder or someone who has to get home wouldn't work for us. We also have cleaners, as well as a gardner and odd jobs man. It means that when we are at home, we have as much quality time as possible with the kids rather than it being taken up by chores.

1. I am lucky to be able to carry on functioning through the tiredness (given what you do, I think you're under estimating yourself) and I am very organised and plan ahead on absolutely everything so this makes a difference.

Lots of my friends switched from practice to industry in their early 30s because the idea of doing the crazy hours seemed incongruent with having a satisfying homelife. I was lucky in that I had my kids after I got senior (and was even luckier as no problems conceiving). As you say it is a real juggling act. I love my kids and my job is intellectually challenging and rewarding so I tend to take the view that these very early years are bloody hard work but I already see it getting easier with dc1 as she heads towards being 3. Hope there's a proper answer for you in in amongst the waffle .

Dandy / LeQ interesting about the computer degree.

DH was offered a place on a computer degree after A Levels, would have been 1989 as well. So a distinct parallel then.

The difference is that Dh became very ill and could not take up the offer.

Which could have happened to absolutely anyone.

Does show the luck bit doesn't it?

Dandy, a tad at your last post but more questioning why you care so much?

xenia from what I gather you are self employed. You are also in a vunreable position but you must be aware of that

novice thank you that is very helpful indeed. I am very impressed that you both manage to do those jobs with a family - and that you share the domestic burdens equally - with no "wife" as it were.

I do wonder if the key is that you had your children after both you and your DH were reasonably senior. Not saying it is easy for you (at all!) but IME it does mean others will work around you to a greater extent, and you are reviewing things that others have put together rather than doing the first draft yourself. Plus of course you have more money to throw at any problems.

Sadly DH and I are still at "senior associate" level, and likely to be there for at least another 2-3 years. So we're not senior enough for people to work around us, and we're still doing a lot of the drafting etc. I don't think that DH could come home for bedtime and pick up later instead, or insist on having quality time at weekends during the day and deferring the work to the evening - when his work needs doing it needs doing there and then. For example he spent half of Saturday and all of Sunday working. Same applies to me to a lesser extent.

I suppose we could put off having children for a few years. But given that we have already had 6 months of unsuccessful TTCing (ie we don't appear to be super fertile) I don't really want to risk leaving it till my mid 30s.

I do think it would be possible to do it now - even with the senior-associate hours (as Xenia and you say, we could in theory get a nanny to cover evenings when DH and I are kept at work). I just don't think it would be particularly enjoyable for any of us. I guess it's a question of whether it's worth a really crappy few years for the sake of the longer term.

Dandy and Peachy agree about the importance of good luck as well as good judgement.

xenia also acknowledged it too IIRC.

I think we're the only ones so far.

That should read:

Dandy and Peachy I agree about the importance of good luck as well as good judgement.

xenia also acknowledged it too IIRC.

I think we're the only ones so far.

I said a lot about luck too, and as I have stated, I am not saying it out of envy, and have some experience of entrepreneurship (I wasn't really in it for the money, but sustainability would have been good!)