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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to find some people attitudes, such as "i work hard i deserve it" really sickening

747 replies

carriedababi · 06/10/2011 11:08

was reading some magazine in the dentist, there was a woman from dragons den iin the mag.
saying how she had a wardrode worth 3 million.

and she went onto say well i work hard for it.
so ideserve it.
and something todo with she sees her expensive clothes as a symbol of how sucessful she is.

really made me feel sick, how a horrible nasty attitude to have in life.

i'm sure even if i was a millionaire, i would not be proud about spending that much on clothes.

i don't know its just the arrogant im entitled to this that got me.
and dont they think people how have less also work hard. probably alot of them work alot harder

what do you think

OP posts:
Xenia · 10/10/2011 08:08

The stats show that women tend to be bad at asking for more pay. It doesn't please me that that is so and by writing about it we can ensure women think about the issue and approach pay discussions in a better fashion. I am not being sexist. I am saying what on average is the case. I never had any trouble with it and I'm sure a lot of other women are fine over it too but it's worth stating to ensure women think about the issue.

As for when is a good time to set up a business a recession is not always a bad time. You can pick up assets of failing businesses in a way that isn't always so easy in good times but I agree you need to pick your business area with care. I accept bank loans are hard to get despite what the Government is saying. I suppose people often start with one lorry and work up without borrowings in some industries. There is a radio 4 business programme and this week the lady on there, can't remember her name, was saying that is how she built up her business and fortune.

Clearly private schooling works well.

With apologies for length here is the Times artilce which to me shows if you can improve schools and results in a bad comp and Surrey comps do much worse that it is not always about money but also about the things private schools do well, rules, manners and the like.

From www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/focus/article794101.ece#prev

"How the ?sergeant major? plans to shake up the country?s schools
The head teacher who is widely expected to be the next chief inspector of schools reveals discipline is at the heart of his vision

"His nickname is sergeant major, his school has been compared to a boot camp and one of his role models is Clint Eastwood?s gunslinger character in the 1985 western Pale Rider.

But last Friday Sir Michael Wilshaw, one of Britain?s top head teachers, seemed more like a proud parent as he related success stories at Mossbourne community academy, a remarkable state school in Hackney, east London, where he is executive principal.

The school is legendary for its disciplinarian approach: lashings of homework, Latin lessons, strict uniform codes, regulation haircuts, children having to recite the school motto at the start of each lesson.

It has paid off: in January, Mossbourne, in one of the poorest parts of Britain, learnt that an astonishing 10 of its sixth-formers ? about a 10th of the year ? had received conditional offers from Cambridge University. They included the son of a taxi driver and the child of an immigrant labourer.

We ban mobile phones so that kids can?t text in class and they don?t get nicked

However, one of the most remarkable tales has not been told. It is the revelation that one of those who won a place at Cambridge was a girl who became a single mother at 14.

?She didn?t want any publicity, didn?t want her name mentioned and all the rest of it, but she became a single mum at the age of 14 while a pupil at Mossbourne,? said Wilshaw.

?She was from a poor family, she had the child and we supported her. She was self- motivated and worked incredibly hard to counter all those handicaps, and this summer she got her A grades at A-level.

?Now she?s started at Cambridge University and they are giving support. She?s got her own flat and they?ve helped with childcare arrangements. I?m delighted. Of all of them, she?s the one who gave me the greatest pleasure, because she had to struggle more than the others to get the grades.?

It is an inspirational story, and one this superhead is recounting because he passionately believes that all children deserve the kind of opportunities Mossbourne offers to youngsters from the tough 1930s council blocks nearby.

Within the next few weeks, Wilshaw, the son of a postman, is expected to be announced as the standards enforcer for England?s schools. The education secretary Michael Gove ? who has hailed Wilshaw as ?my hero? ? is tipped to appoint him as chief inspector at Ofsted, the education watchdog.

If the move is confirmed, Wilshaw would be in charge of a team of inspectors sent into schools to report on whether they are ?outstanding?, ?good?, ?satisfactory? or ?inadequate?. Already, it is clear he thinks the standards are too low and that there are too many ?coasting? schools that are underachieving.

?Satisfactory,? he snorted. ?I?ve never liked that word. It gives the wrong message to parents. An unsophisticated parent who doesn?t understand Ofsted speak would look at the schools described as satisfactory and think everything was fine. But it?s not. So we have to look very carefully at satisfactory.? About 37% of schools are ranked satisfactory.

Ofsted needs to be more ?credible?, he said. If the ?word on the street and the gossip among head teachers is that some schools are being judged good but don?t deserve that judgment, then Ofsted loses its credibility?.

Last week, Wilshaw said he had thought ?long and hard? before applying for the top job in education, but was now ?committed? to the post if, as is widely expected, his appointment is confirmed, most likely with a starting date in January.

Unruly pupils make good teaching impossible, he said. Under his leadership, both poor teaching and pupil misbehaviour in schools would be likely to come under close scrutiny. He believes standards can be raised ? and that other state schools, not just Mossbourne, can and should send far more pupils to good universities, including Oxbridge, than they do at present.

Who is this man on a mission to transform our schools? Born in India in the dying days of the Raj, Wilshaw left for England as an infant. His father, formerly a soldier, became a postman; his mother raised the family as Catholics. The faith is still important to him: he has said he has ?an evangelical zeal to do Christ?s work on Earth?.

He won a place at a Catholic grammar school in south London but admits that, like lots of boys, he did not work hard enough at school. ?I did it the hard way,? he said. After teacher training at St Mary?s, a Catholic college in Twickenham, he took a history degree at Birkbeck College in the evenings.

He cemented a reputation as a troubleshooter as head of St Bonaventure?s, a 1,300-pupil school in east London, becoming known for his ability to turn around failing schools. But it was at Mossbourne, which he created from scratch in 2004 on the site of the former Hackney Downs comprehensive (once labelled the worst school in England), that he really made his mark.

Seven years after its opening in a building designed by Richard Rogers, Mossbourne?s record is eye-popping. Every youngster in year 13 ? the first year of A-level results ? went to university this year. Yet 40% of pupils come from such poor families that they are entitled to free school meals and 30% are on the special needs register.

How does he do it? Discipline is key, says Wilshaw, rigidly enforced. Pupils are sent home for wearing the wrong colour shoes; buying chewing gum or chicken and chips on the way home is forbidden; and when girls complained to him that boys were greeting them with hugs in the playground, he promptly banned hugs ? and handshakes for good measure.

?Some of it was innocent, some of it was not. I did it to protect some of the girls who were feeling a bit intimidated by bear hugs,? he said.

But it is not purely about rules. The school also stays open until 6.30pm and on Saturday mornings so children from chaotic homes have somewhere to do their homework. It is staffed mainly by dedicated young teachers in their twenties, who work punishing hours ? up to 15 daily ? and act almost like surrogate parents.

Wilshaw said these young teachers would sink unless he managed to create a calm atmosphere in the school. ?There is too much emphasis on the strictness of our rules. Actually it?s about saying something very simple, which is that you can?t teach unless there?s a calm atmosphere and good order,? he said.

?We have a lot of young teachers in their early twenties who are very dedicated and passionate, but they would drown in a school where discipline was poor.

?One in four young teachers leaves the profession in the first four years because they are fed up with challenging behaviour in the classroom. So every head teacher should strive to create a calm atmosphere.

?And good behaviour comes from being absolutely clear and consistent about what you expect. We ban mobile phones so that kids can?t text in class and they don?t get nicked. And it?s the same rule for everyone.?

Both good behaviour from pupils and good teaching will be key targets if he is put in charge of school inspections.

His ambitions for standards are bold. At present, about 53% of the country?s children obtain five good GCSEs, including maths and English. ?That?s too low,? said Wilshaw. ?That means half the nation is not reaching that standard. Singapore, which is at the top of international league tables, is getting far more than that, more like 82%. So we?ve got to catch up with our international competitors in the next five years.

?If a school like Mossbourne ? where 86% of children get five good GCSEs ? can do it, there?s no reason that schools in more affluent parts of the country shouldn?t. Schools in the shires and suburbs should be getting that figure easily.?

Within the next five to 10 years, he wants 75% of students at Oxbridge to be recruited from state schools. At present, the figure is about 55% to 60%.

Can he turn talk into results on a bigger scale than Mossbourne? Critics claim Wilshaw could prove as confrontational with the teaching unions as Chris Woodhead, the former chief inspector who famously claimed there were 15,000 incompetent teachers who needed to be sacked.

According to Wilshaw, who says he has got rid of about 12 to 15 teachers over his 25-year career, about 10% of teachers in any school need ?help to leave as quickly as possible?.

?They shouldn?t remain in the profession. If you feel that children are suffering year in year out, you do it very quickly,? he said.

He feels the same way about poor head teachers. ?Good schools are run by good heads, as simple as that. There are lots of heads in the secondary sector earning more than £100,000, they?re earning more than the prime minister in some cases, so we expect them to deliver, the nation expects them to deliver, and if they can?t they need to move on.?

He has in the past compared good head teachers to Eastwood?s character in Pale Rider. ?Take that scene in Pale Rider when the baddies are shooting up the town, the mists dissipate and Clint is there. Being a head teacher is all about being the lone warrior, fighting for righteousness, fighting the good fight.? Sometimes, to be a good head teacher, he has said, ?you have to be scary?.

He will need to be tough if he is confirmed as chief inspector. Last week Woodhead, a Sunday Times columnist, said he wished Wilshaw well but that he would face an uphill task.

?The first challenge is to find the quality of inspectors he will need. My biggest problem was not having enough people who would stand up for my agenda, which was deeply unpopular with most teachers,? said Woodhead. ?If he does not have the right calibre inspectors, it will all fall apart.

?He will have to be robust in standing up to the teaching unions, which will oppose any criticism of teachers. Ofsted was called the Spanish inquisition when I was chief inspector. Wilshaw has to persuade people that he will give praise where it is due, but will be ruthless in exposing failure.?

Wilshaw, however, is optimistic. In fact, he is so confident he can bring improvements that he predicts that both David Cameron, an Old Etonian, and Gove, who went to both state and independent schools, will send their youngsters to state secondary schools.

?I think they will. But like all parents, they?re concerned about state education. Why is it that parents queue up to send their children to Mossbourne and jump over the fence at open evenings? There are just not enough Mossbourne-type schools.?

moondog · 10/10/2011 08:29

Fantastic bloke.
Do they really let mobiles into schools amd let kids use them?
That is unbelievable.

I remember meeting dh and discussing with him why kids went to school with big bags of books on their backs. He told me it was because there was nowhere to put them. I mused on why they didn't just put them in thier desks like we did (boarding school) and he looked at me aghast and said 'Because thery would be stolen!'

Do kids not even have lockers then?

SolarPrestigeAGammon · 10/10/2011 08:38

Carrie, I think if you work hard then you do deserve whatever you want to spend your money on HOWEVER what I don't agree with is people thinking they deserve "stuff" WITHOUT working hard, WITHOUT saving (ie credit cards).

Their day will come Smile

BrandyAlexander · 10/10/2011 08:47

laptopdancer, if I had to get the family out of the door by 7.30am, I would fail spectacularly on a daily basis! It's a major achievement that we're all out just after 8.30am Grin As I said, I am to be able to structure my day, but having said that I am keen for people who work for me to have flexible working, especially if it encourages women to stay on the same career path. I do think that as time goes on morE enlightened employers will be less bothered about presenteeism and less difficult about offering flexible working or working from home. Eg one investment bank I know has gone from assuming that you're watching daytime soaps if you work from home and being very difficult about it (10 years ago) to now requiring some employees to work from home at least a day a week.

laptopdancer · 10/10/2011 09:29

I totally gree. novice My boss is a female with no children and she is the most inflexible and unsympathetic boss with regards to working hours and being "in the office". I actually transferred from the NHS to this job with the belief it had certain freedoms. I had more freedom in the nhs.
I will be leaving the job soon as I have extreme difficulty maintaining the start and finish times they have given me.
I get at least three times more work done when Im at home, no exaggeration.
I want to be rewarded for work done , Im not in this position.

LeQueen · 10/10/2011 09:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LeQueen · 10/10/2011 09:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

minipie · 10/10/2011 10:47

novice I find your posts very interesting. I'm exactly that woman you are talking about - City lawyer, 31, wanting to have a family and wondering how the hell I will fit it all into the day. I like my job, I like earning the money, but am not sure I like it enough to try to juggle the way you do. Frankly the thought makes me feel exhausted.

May I ask what your DH does - or at least what his hours are like? And how much of the domestic chores/childcare does he do?

I ask because all the partners I know who have families (both male and female) also have spouses who are either SAHP or work in much less demanding jobs. So their spouse takes on at least 50% - and often more like 80% - of the domestic responsibilities. By contrast my DH's hours (he does M&A) are far worse than mine, and there is no way he is going to be able to take on 50%. He just doesn't have time.

bugster · 10/10/2011 11:04

xenia interesting article. The school in Hackney sounds very good. I hope more schools change in the same way and that it will encourage more parents to send their children to state schools.

limitedperiodonly · 10/10/2011 11:09

You're clearly joking, aren't you millicent?

That article is desperate even for the Mail's 'women, know your place' standards.

My favourite bit is the conveniently unidentified 'Nicola' who has a degree, a husband, children and a walk-in wardrobe stuffed with designer goodies yet is wilting under the tyranny of choice thrust upon her by the modern world and those damned feminists.

'I should feel like I'm in paradise,' sobbed 'Nicola', who exists solely as a figment of the writer's limited imagination.

'But inside, I know none of it really matters and what I really long for is to be at home, like my mother was, and enjoy my children while they are still young.'

minipie · 10/10/2011 11:18

Agree limitedperiod.

Because of course the only reason she works rather than being at home is to buy the designer shoes. There couldn't possibly be any other reason like, ooh, bills, mortgage payments, or wanting to be able to afford good schools for her children. If it weren't for those pesky shoes, she could be at home where she belongs rather than forced into a high flying job Hmm.

Xenia · 10/10/2011 12:03

I think the way couples make it work, minipie, is where there is (a) no sexism an dno assumption because you're male you don't get up in the night with babies, do the washing etc (b) by buying in help as needed. So if one of you works longer hours in our case it varied but one of us got back to the house by 6,.30 or 7 so the daily nanny could go home or even 6 where possible . Lots of cou ples alternate that or one waits at home until the nanny arrives in the morning. Yes it is difficult but never let the woman be lumbered with it only. Therein lies the road to unhappiness resentment and ruin.

Also if he says he can never get home by that kind of time then leave it to him to find someone to cover that time and don't let him assume it will be the woman. He can hire someone perhaps 2 or 3 nights a week to cover if one of you is working very late. He can ensrue she or he turns up. he can find her. Don't let this be a female thing only.

Also it all passes so soon. My older 3 have all graduated now. The stage when they were all babies goes very fast and don't m ake decisions about career that are regretted over the next 30 years and shoot female earning capacity to p ieces because plenty of men run off and then hide their money and you're left high and dry and the chidlren won't thank you for being impoverished later.

pommedechocolat · 10/10/2011 12:06

because plenty of men run off and then hide their money and you're left high and dry and the chidlren won't thank you for being impoverished later

Slight projection much Xenia?

Marrying and bonking the right man might be another way of dealing with this?

wordfactory · 10/10/2011 12:13

pomme the sad reality for far too many women is that they are left with nothing but the DC.

Why do you think so many single mohters are on benefits? Not many are feckless teens. Most are women who have been left by their husbands and now find themselves with no way to support themselves or their families.

For these women having an education and a career would have been a saviour.

GothAnneGeddes · 10/10/2011 12:15

Pomme - Don't be so smug and nasty. The Relationship board is full, full, of women who thought they'd married the right man only to find he wanted to be someone else's right man.

Using Xenia's divorce against her is nasty and low and makes you sound very insecure.

pommedechocolat · 10/10/2011 12:22

I didn't mean to be nasty, sorry.

I just do not think that sahm = going to be taken advantage of by a man who will also leave his kids destitute. It is not automatic and there are lots of women it doesn't happen to!

I didn't know Xenia was divorced and do not believe that I need to know every poster's back story before replying to their comments!

wordfactory · 10/10/2011 12:24

All the research shows that women generally do worse on divorce and every lawyer will testify to the fact that this is correct.
Too many women who spent their best years looking after DC find themselves seperated and with no means of support.

That was one of the motivators for introduction the first wftc. To help these women back into the work place.

pommedechocolat · 10/10/2011 12:30

..but not all women who are sahm get divorced?

Xenia · 10/10/2011 12:37

50% I think or something of married people divorce. So half the married women on the thread are likely to be divorced. No projection. I was married for 19 years. I was the one paying out to my husband on divorec. I suppose if you're earning nothing at least you'll be a taker not a give on a divorce so you might see that as the silver lining. But there has been a huge number of men I've met through work and on dates who seem to think it will impress me to describe (a) how their assets are hidden off shore (b) who are choosing to earn"nothing" in their self employed business so the non earning wife they are divorc ing does not get the money (c) who give up work to find themselves in France earning nothing etc etc . Many men don't do this but if you earn your own money it certainly cannot be done to you.

Slacking9to5 · 10/10/2011 12:38

Yes, it seems a bit odd to think, well I'll carry on working even though I don't want to, even though we can afford for me not to and even though I think it's better for everyone if I SAH, just on the off chance I get dumped thirty years from now.

It depends on so many factors, you simply can't generalise. If you don't feel 100% secure and/or don't have the legal protection of marriage then it might be more prudent to keep your hand in. No one can predict the future, though.

wordfactory · 10/10/2011 12:40

Well of course not, but women should know the risks if they are left by their usbands, or indeed if their husbands die or fall ill and are unable to work.

If women know the risks and accept them then that is a different matter, but for far too many it just never occurs to them. And theat makes them terribly vulnerable. Which is why women through time have had to remian in bad marriages.

wordfactory · 10/10/2011 12:44

I just think that all sane and responsible adults should ask themselves what would I do if my partner could no longer support me.

Obviously, there are things that you can do to safeguard the situation like insurances etc but for many women it will be a case of no protection whatsoever. They will have to get a job. And that will be hard with no career to speak of and no recent work experience.

GothAnneGeddes · 10/10/2011 12:44

Pomme - the really big question that has been missed on here amongst the near worship (by some) of having lots of money and that being rich = some sort of moral superiority, is that valuing work on how much money it produces automatically devalues unpaid work, e.g SAHMing.

No one has come on here saying my husband works round the clock but makes minimum wage, how wonderful. No, it's been look at my rich hardworking husband. But putting such a high emphasis on money, unpaid work is devalued, so like wordfactory's post, women do very badly on divorcing.

Slacking9to5 · 10/10/2011 12:46

Hmm, not sure about that goth. Wives of wealthy men usually do rather well on divorce!

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