Muslim children and dress at school

[arinita]

I volunteered on Friday at my child's school (about 50% Muslim) and actually got quite upset at how restrictive the clothes were that a lot of the girl children were sent to school dressed in. It was a really hot day and most of the Muslim girls had on a really tight headscarf, covering their chin and most of their forehead and long sleeves. About half of them also had a long shift thing that came to the floor. They looked hot and uncomfortable and weren't able to join in the other children's games as they couldn't run/climb in the clothes they had on. I asked the class teacher and she said that they couldn't enforce the uniform policy if there were religious objections. Is this true? Can't they insist on health and safety grounds? Some of these little kids just looked miserable as they were so hot and the one who was trying to climb the spiders web and kept getting caught up in her long robe about broke my heart. Is there a real religious why under 10yr old children have to be covered at all times? It seems so unfair and horrible for the children. And sexist.

Ay way the whole thing is silly with in a country were this dress is the norm you would be modest BUT.... In the uk were this is nt the norm the fathers women are drawing attention to themselves hardly what I would call modest and the other thing that makes me laugh is you often see these women caked in make up like repaul with six inch heels hardly modest often with false eye lashes

It's not to do with the media in my case or the friends I have.
We do get frustrated at the kind of separatist and divisive life that is being pushed to Muslims.

When I was a teenager, the Imam at our mosque gave me a book specifically aimed at being British and Muslim. It was a great book which basically told the youngsters to study hard, get a good education and play a representative role in various aspects of British society in jobs like teaching, social services, the police force etc. You get the drift.

Now it seems that some Muslims won't allow there children to attend birthday parties, the dress has to be this Arab garb (when most of the Muslims wearing it are Asians), some women won't get a job unless it's at a Muslim school.
I'm not saying this is the case everywhere, but there is definitely a political push towards this.

lesley33 agreed the Hasidic Jews have expected that its not their place to bully the population into taking on their laws a customs so they set up their own schools and live quietly and by in large have their own shops and work for each other

What they don't do however is try to in force their values on the population and take every employer and school to court when they can't have their own way to bully the population into taking on their sexist beliefs

My little boy wanted to play go fish with his friend and break time his friend reply I am not allowed to gamble I am a Muslim

I think their is a big misunderstanding between Muslims about their own religion

In fairness maypole I think it is probably more to do with numbers. If you are a very small group like Hassidic Jews in England, then it is possible to live fairly separate - employ each other, etc. We have a large Muslim population and it is just not realistic for a large community to work and shop separately from the rest of the community.

Lesley. I don't Riven is saying that anyone is pro Hassidic Jew moreso that MN, well these threads, are anti Muslim. I think she's wrong and right, the practice is Muslim (or not dependent upon your view about cultural/religious reasoning) and it is the practice which is criticised.

is the push for more traditional and cultural clothing because many muslims feel alienated and picked upon (I'd say some of the media definitely does prey on this and incites anti muslim feeling). Wonder if it is a sort of 'fuck you' we are proud of what we are and we won't be shamed into hiding. I can understand young people exploring their religion and trying out different aspects of it whether that be clothing or how they practice it.

Riven why do you wear the veil, i'm curious as i know you are a convert and not brought up in the muslim culture?

i can see why the abaya, salwar keemiz and hijab could be liberating and some of the everyday sights you see on our streets could do with being covered up more - for some reason we seem to have a problem with women who cover up rather than those who let it all hang out. Maybe we should try it to see what it's like and what reactions we would get.

Well I'm definitely not anti Muslim. I am just critical of the current practices of some communities which are causing damage to the Muslim community at large.

We know this so why don't they

Speaking to a woman at swimming her son goes daughter sits on the side with the mums I asked why she dosent go she explained because their were boys in the pool and she can't mix with them boys I explained but she gose to school every day with boys and that when they do pe they would be changing in the same class

When I also pointed out to her that her other thing about not being allowed to touch a man whom you are not related to holes as I asked well what do you do if your sick majority of doctors, are male she had no answer

I do think unless they are planning to raise their daughters for marriage or a very narrow filed of behind the scenes office work then they need to get a grip

begonyabampot well they can give the fuck you as much as they like but I would imagine they are only limiting themselves hurting their own families and also causing family issues I can only fathom the discourse it courses when these girls who are not keen on these practices cause when they rebel

Riven, Are you honestly going to tell us when David Cameron arrived at your home you didn't shake his hand?

I used to go to a local park and you woudl quite often see families where the dad and litlte boys were wearing football kit (Arsenal, Chelsea tops etc) and the mum and little girls were totally covered up and wondered how one aspect of Western life had been totally adopted and another so rejected. It did seem very unfair on the poor little girls to be so encumbered, because long skirts are restrictive. Children should be children first and foremost.

I feel the same way about some of the Christian communities where I live now, again with very long skirts for the girls, but at least the boys are wearing equally old fashioned clothing.

It's not as simple as not sending kids to a party. It's a whole push to a separatist and divisive life. I'm sick of using that phrase but that's what it is.

This is really damaging.
If you are part of a wider Muslim community then you will see how this anti integretion affects communities as a whole and isolates individuals.

Riveninabingle and this is it you may not like it but as a boyish person on business it is customary to shake hands on a deal

So as a muslim would you at the end of a deal just say thanks then sod off because I do believe thats exotically what I am talking about

I hate shaking peoples hand but part of not being rude in the uk is hacking hand s when doing a deal.
When to sit and say I can't shake hands in that situation I am a Muslim would piss me off because with out even knowing some one I could give them a million zillion ways were they would of been touched by a man who is not their husband

Sorry for the sp people I pad

Well I agree with you on the hand shaking. I hate it. I hate air kissing and hugging people who aren't related to me. Not because I'm a Muslim though I'd be happy to cite that as a reason to not do it.

hand shaking is not always customary depending on the culture. A person having business dealings with people of different cultures should be aware of cultural differences and try to act accordingly or at least not look for and take offense if some cultures or religions do things differently. To do otherwise would be rather narrow minded and not good business practice..