Muslim children and dress at school

[arinita]

I volunteered on Friday at my child's school (about 50% Muslim) and actually got quite upset at how restrictive the clothes were that a lot of the girl children were sent to school dressed in. It was a really hot day and most of the Muslim girls had on a really tight headscarf, covering their chin and most of their forehead and long sleeves. About half of them also had a long shift thing that came to the floor. They looked hot and uncomfortable and weren't able to join in the other children's games as they couldn't run/climb in the clothes they had on. I asked the class teacher and she said that they couldn't enforce the uniform policy if there were religious objections. Is this true? Can't they insist on health and safety grounds? Some of these little kids just looked miserable as they were so hot and the one who was trying to climb the spiders web and kept getting caught up in her long robe about broke my heart. Is there a real religious why under 10yr old children have to be covered at all times? It seems so unfair and horrible for the children. And sexist.

and why are religious reasons more important than anything else, actually?

if the reason to oppress women and girls is a religious one, does that make it o.k.?

Can a man take away a woman's freedoms if it is on religious grounds?

Why is the man's freedom of religion more important than the woman's right to freedom?

Why can't the girls wear trousers? Is there a religious or cultural rule against girls in trousers?

Not in my sons school they sent a boy home just today as he came to school with a green turban after the weekend the school colours are not green

No the fabric isn't light in weight. It is heavier so that it doesn't cling to curves. I imagine it is hot to wear. Everyone I know who wears one looks very hot on summery days. But at least an adult can choose whether to wear it or not - a young child can't.

The nice muslim school (very expensive cars, so I'm assuming a posh school) by where I lived in Malaysia had a similar dress code for girls, and the boys were fully covered too. I think, that much like blazer/shirt/tie the whole headscarf/long tunic (abaya? It's been a while) is seen as formal wear, and that's why the children wear it to school, but wouldn't wear it when out and about normally.

It really isn't that hot (especially if you've got dark hair - it's why I wear a baseball cap in the sun), it's not some religious oppression, it's just traditional dress as uniform.

If the little girls and boys are having to wear the formal get up down the shops on a saturday, then that's when I think it goes a bit far

But parents who want their kids to wear an abaya will want it worn for modesty reasons. The reason to wear the abaya is so that the shape of your body is hidden i.e. you can't see waist, hips, braests.

Prepubescent girls don't have any of those to hide.

Trousers aren't good enough for stricter families as you can still see the shape of the body. The reason for the abaya is so that you can't see the shape.

I think it's Wahabbism (originating in Saudi Arabia) that is pushing for pre-pubescent girls to wear the full shebang. They're the ones with all the money, so they get to say what's what (even if it is contrary to established practice in other long-established muslim areas).

Little girls are meant to wear skirts below their knees, boys to keep their ties done up etc and wear a blazer - there's no reason for that either except modesty and tradition, they're just wearing children's versions of the grown up formal clothes, just as any other uniform is.

"Prepubescent girls don't have any of those to hide." - I agree which is why religiously there is no need for it until puberty.

And the abaya is not formal wear. The families/individuals who want the abaya to be worn will wear it either all the time in public or more rarely nearly all of the time.

No reason at all that any young child should be covered, the notion is perverse iyam. However I think it's awful that any woman is the gatekeeper to a man's lust, but that's for adult women to decide (whne it is her choice). Little girls should be allowed to be little children and wear normal clothes. Schools should not be allowing girls to wear hijabs, until they are at least 11.

To be honest I think I just despair of the whole thing and if schools would take a stricter line on this I think it would help a lot of girls who don't actually don't want to wear this get up but are made to

I often see round here girls shoving the scarf in their school bag as soon as they get round the corner

Very sad

Many women who wear the abaya will only remove it in their own house with own family present or in a private setting where there are no men present.

It isn't just a uniform or formal clothes. It is clothing that some muslims thinks needs to be worn when in public and purely for religious reasons.

Perhaps I'm mis-understanding what these kids are wearing - when I say Abaya (perhaps the wrong word) I mean a long tunic, and skirt much like the little girl here www.kampungnet.com.sg/node/66 with a headscarf. It definitely was seen as the formal wear in Malaysia - what you'd wear to a wedding, or a nice dinner etc. and little girls would wear a head scarf for school, or sometimes also for formal wear.

I thought many of these countries developed this style of clothing because of the hot weather, for protection from the sun.

begony that might make sense if the clothing was white or light coloured. But it's usually black which absorbs the heat terribly.

lesley33 so why do they take it off as soon as they are out of their family site because they are being MADE to ware it

At my sons school they can were it but have to wear the shirt,tie and Trousres underneath and the blazer on top so they have 3 layers of clothing nice luckily only few girls we are this

And England is not a hot country it's over cast 50% of the time

chunky - That does look cool and fine. No when I said an abaya I meant this.
www.alibaba.com/product-gs/468642700/Fashion_Arab_women_muslim_robes_abaya.html

Its more like a long coat than anything else.

Any way sadly for many of these Extream families their daugters can nly work in Asian companies as this style of wear thank god dose not work in the moder biritish work place what a waist of a young girls mind

maypole1 - I haven't seen the uniforms so I can't tell if I feel it's too much or not (but TBH some private schools have uniforms I feel are crazy too), but almost every child changes something about their uniform/dress the moment they're out of sight of their parents... swapping shoes, rolling up skirt, adding mascara - kids don't like uniforms no matter what it is :)

Where I live in south London girls in pushchairs have headscarves on. It makes me very sad - that age and already being treated differently to their brothers.

sorry minipie I don't think these girls should be wearing abaya either.

Yes England is often overcast. But the point of "modest" dress is that children if their parents want them to wear it, have to wear it all the time irrespective of the weather.

I agree with the OP. It is unfair and I would feel sorry for them too. I think that at puberty it is more acceptable but not when they are still at primary school.

I think trousers would be better. I think the culture should try and adapt a bit more towards western dress. the girls could still be modestly dressed and cover their heads if necessary

Of course it's sexist. There have been muslims in this country for decades, but it's only the last decade or two where such strict enforcement of clothing has occured. It's not necessary in young girls and after puberty modest dress is all that is needed. Anything more is a statement. Everyone is frightened of offending others I think it's offensive to see girls locked up in layers of black cloth. Medieval.