Muslim children and dress at school

[arinita]

I volunteered on Friday at my child's school (about 50% Muslim) and actually got quite upset at how restrictive the clothes were that a lot of the girl children were sent to school dressed in. It was a really hot day and most of the Muslim girls had on a really tight headscarf, covering their chin and most of their forehead and long sleeves. About half of them also had a long shift thing that came to the floor. They looked hot and uncomfortable and weren't able to join in the other children's games as they couldn't run/climb in the clothes they had on. I asked the class teacher and she said that they couldn't enforce the uniform policy if there were religious objections. Is this true? Can't they insist on health and safety grounds? Some of these little kids just looked miserable as they were so hot and the one who was trying to climb the spiders web and kept getting caught up in her long robe about broke my heart. Is there a real religious why under 10yr old children have to be covered at all times? It seems so unfair and horrible for the children. And sexist.

Riven - I think we can disapprove of someone personally, but still think they have the right to do someting,

So I don't think children should have to wear restrictive clothing that stops them playing. And I don't think girls should get the message that they have to cover their bodies to stop men being "tempted".

But I do think it is the parents who should make the decision on how to dress their children.

Parents should be free to decide how to dress their children outside of school. When they are at school they should abide by the school uniform rules, and if that doesn't meet their personal requirements then they should find a school that does or homeschool.

Also it must make going to the loo a real pain especially in public toilets if there is wee on the floor etc. Yuck and trying to hunch the whole thing up. Not much fun for little kids IMO especially at primary when they need to go quickly.

I personally do not like girls in mini skirts particularly and girls can still dress modestly without going to the extreme of some of these "religious" outfits.

MrBloomsNursery

My mind is quite open thank you. What I wear is irelevant. What some silly parent forces their child to wear is not.

My comments were actually based on what the OP had reported:

" They looked hot and uncomfortable and weren't able to join in the other children's games as they couldn't run/climb in the clothes they had on "

which, of course, is "daft".

I've never noticed girls being particularly constricted by covering up, either at the school I used to work in or at DS1's primary school. The girls at his school just seem to hitch up the long hems and get on with it.

i wear abayah, and in hot weather i wear thin one, with few chiffon clothes underneath. they do not have to be heavy weight. in fact i find it cooler when the sun is not on my skin and wearing loose clothes as the air circulates inside my abaya, and catches every little breeze.

if you dont believe me try it, wear an abaya, and khimaar with vest top underneath for a few hours and see how it feels.

in hot weather we are all hot, not just those who cover.

my dd is 4 and doesnt wear abayah or hijab.

my other dd3 loves hats and headscarfs, the same way kids like to wear there mums shoes, they like to copy their headscarfs, so many kids want to wear it.

long sleeves and legs in hot weather prevents sun burn.

it is not required before puberty to wear it, but instead of suddenly sayin now you have pubic hair etc wear a scarf, some people like to take a more gradual approach, and get their kids used to it.

personally i would want my kids to come to their own decision and wear it when they feel they want to, and understand the reasoning behind it, theres no point in forcing someone to wear it, as so many have said they just take it off round the corner.

did the other kids not look hot in the hot weather?

in primary schools kids are under no obligation to wear the uniform. my dd has been wearing a pink cardigan as she lost her blue one, no one cares.

in secondary school we werent allowed to wear trousers so muslims wore longer length skirts.

we werent even allowed to wear hair bands that werent the school colours so wearing non school coloured scarves was unthinkable.

oh and my dds reception teacher does wear abayah too, as does her speech therapist, her pharamcist, her gp, the childrens centre manager, the gps receptionist, and soo many other professionals we come across.

it is not restrictive in terms of career.

all the four main sunni schools of jurisprudence agree on the issue of the abaya being compulsory, and believe it or not this is the sect that most muslims follow. it is a alternative view it is not compulsory which is not widely held, or supported by any scholars.

"it is not required before puberty to wear it, but instead of suddenly sayin now you have pubic hair etc wear a scarf, some people like to take a more gradual approach, and get their kids used to it"

Understandable. Best to get them used to the shackles young, lest they revolt

nailak - I agree that covering up with light weight materials can be cooler in hot weather than leaving skin exposed to the sun. The two women I work with who wear abayas, appear to wear a heavy one all year round. So my comments were based on that.

Salwar kameez are modest, elegant and cool and incredibly practical. I don't understand what an abaya adds

yes cote but you are basing your hypothesis on false premise.

my abayah is my freedom not my shackles. i love it, the same way you love your freedom i love mine, and the same way you will instill your love of your freedom in to your kids and hope they follow, i will do the same,

but of course, as a muslim woman i suppose i cant think for myself. despite not belonging to any sort of community that pressureise me or would disown me for not covering and having a family that would prefer me to wear mini skirt then abaya, and not attending any type of brainwashing institutions...

it feels good, i enjoy wearing it but i shouldnt as some people are forced etc

nailak, Is it a coincidence that all the people you deal with dress like you or do you only deal with those who dress like you to avoid the complications that the covering up rules cause?

It is not restrictive in terms of career

I'm a man. Could you teach me to swim? or could you only get in the pool on women only days?

erm i didnt choose my dds teacher? or slt? or the childrens centre manager, or gp, you dont et to interview the gp before you register? these are just my local services, that i attend, they all have to do with children as most of my life revolves around my kids, there are also people in these places which dont cover obviously, it is a mixture, there is no barrier,

ok maybe i was wrong it is restrictive in terms of career, there are a few wacky careers that not many woman want to do anyway like swimming instructor or personal trainer, or mens hair dresser, or working in a pub, etc that i couldnt do, but for me in the areas where i am interested in and perceive myself working in, there is no restriction.

in terms of coincidence, i think maybe it is as i live in an area in which cultural diversity is valued and people are judged on abilities rather then dress wear, and variations of cultural dress are the norm. wearing an abaya here is not seen as weird or wacky, there are a lot of people who do it, and it is accepted. there is no thought that those who wear it are a counter culture or setting themselves apart from the rest of the community, as they are such an integral part and make up a large part of the community.

I really don't understand why anyone would want to put their child in such restrictive clothing.

I'm a Muslim and I was never dressed like that by my parents. My mum was never dressed like that as a child. I know no Muslim who dresses their daughter like that. It makes no sense to me.
In fact I just get annoyed how many Muslims seem to want to create a backwards and divisive society.

Thank goodness all the Muslims I know don't susbscribe to this view that all 4 sunni schools of thought seem to
Apart from the elders who cover their hair with a scarf or a shawl, I know only a few Muslims who wear a hijab and none who wear the abayah. Don't presume most Muslims do because in my experience, most don't.

Nailak am very interested in the freedom an abaya brings - I like to wear hats (especially on bad hair days) and sometimes feel that being veiled wouldn't bother me inasmuch as I could go about my business without being 'seen' and judged, iyswim - is this what you mean? Have always wanted to know, please don't be cross with me.

Was out in ThatLondon the other month, and there, by Selfridges, was a group of teenage girls wearing hijab - but with indecently tight jeans and tops that covered all but were very form fitting, so I don't quite think that was about modesty for these young ladies!

I cannot help feeling that we are all guilty of fearing what we don't understand or know. I know that, for me, it is not the veil I fear (was googling just now and there's some beautiful stuff that wants to live with me oh yes ) - but very likely that I, at least, am the product of a lifetime of media saturation telling me that it is oppressive/forced. Thoughts?

my abaya gives me confidence, when i approach people i used to act in a different manner according to how i was dressed, i knew if i was dressed up the treatment i recieved would be different from the same person then if i was in jogging bottoms, i used to dress to please others, and turn heads,

now i dont care what people think about the way i dress, if they dont like it tough, i feel able to approach anyone at anytime without being worried, i feel like im judged by my abilities and what i say rather then what i look like.

i also feel free from the constraints of the fashion industry, obviously at home i still wear clothes, but because i want to, not because i feel i have to compete or conform.

i know people may say i am conforming to muslim communities expectations, but i am not part of any muslim community tbh, i only started getting muslim friends from the school gates and i wore abaya before that.

those girls outside harrods, everyone has a time when they are discovering themselves and what works for them, and this is what they are doing.

i dont feel oppressed, i dont feel like this is internalisation of patriarchal oppression as my family and husband dont have those expectations, and my family would prefer if i didnt wear it, including the male members. and noone can force me to do anything.

thats the whole point, i spent so long trying to please others, now i am doing what i do for myself.

It's nonsense that a veil makes you seen and not judged, of course you're judged. You're judged for hiding behind a veil, and people make just as many (if not more) assumptions about you than if you were wearing a skirt and tee.

Nailik. Did you mean to imply that women who cut men's hair, work in a pub or are swimming instructors or personal trainers are whacky? If so, how bizarre. And you seem to live some sort of separatist Muslim life with most professionals you see wearing religious attire.

Nailik.... Seems that your choice is more a rebellion then. Your attitude has changed, it's got nothing to do with your clothing because if you honestly think people treated you differently dependent upon what you were wearing but now suddenly the 'abaya' rids everyone of judgement you are very misguided. People still make judgments, they always will.

nailak wacky jobs what like police women, Surgeon, fire women, ambulance crew, pe teacher well wacky Jobs arnt they

riven - People don't post this kind of post about hassidic jews I think because so few people come across hassidic jews - it is a very small community. I don't think it is fear of anti semitism. I have lived in a number of diverse cities and only ever came across hassidic jews in 1 small part of London.

Muslims who wear hijabs and abayas are common in many cities in England and thus people comment more on it.

Luna....it's nothing to do with the media, it's everything to do with the intention of the garment. You cannot undo the fact that it was prescribed by men to protect men from their lust....to control women. It's a cultural hangover.

I lived in Golders Green and have seen more Muslims in Bristol than I've ever seen hassidic jews ANYWHERE.

I really don't like Riven how your post tries to make this issue into an anti islamic issue versus a pro jew issue. It really is not.