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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Muslim children and dress at school

239 replies

arinita · 03/10/2011 16:00

I volunteered on Friday at my child's school (about 50% Muslim) and actually got quite upset at how restrictive the clothes were that a lot of the girl children were sent to school dressed in. It was a really hot day and most of the Muslim girls had on a really tight headscarf, covering their chin and most of their forehead and long sleeves. About half of them also had a long shift thing that came to the floor. They looked hot and uncomfortable and weren't able to join in the other children's games as they couldn't run/climb in the clothes they had on. I asked the class teacher and she said that they couldn't enforce the uniform policy if there were religious objections. Is this true? Can't they insist on health and safety grounds? Some of these little kids just looked miserable as they were so hot and the one who was trying to climb the spiders web and kept getting caught up in her long robe about broke my heart. Is there a real religious why under 10yr old children have to be covered at all times? It seems so unfair and horrible for the children. And sexist.

OP posts:
MrBloomsNursery · 03/10/2011 22:01

The type of clothes that may seem "daft" to you, may not seem "daft" to the people who wear them. Please open your mind a bit - not everyone dresses like you. YOU think wearing shorts and a tshirt is comfortable, OTHERS may disagree.

metalelephant · 03/10/2011 22:15

sorry MrBloomsNursery but there is nothing openminded about a 5 year old covered up in order to not excite men. If anything, it's narrow minded and twisted. Her mum can wear what she likes, but it's an inhuman thing for a child to endure.

lesley33 · 03/10/2011 23:11

mrblooms - wearing heavy dark fabrics that cover the body in hot weather is not comfortable. Wearing light weight fabrics that cover the body is often cooler than wearing clothes like t shirts. People from different cultures still have the same physiological functions you know. They still sweat if they are hot for example.

lesley33 · 03/10/2011 23:32

I have seen young children in hijabs, but not in abayas, unlike the OP. Dressing pre pubescent children in abayas is I suspect very rare.

havinhoops1974 · 03/10/2011 23:34

sounds quite sad :(

lesley33 · 04/10/2011 08:28

There are though black children's abayas on sale on the internet - so somebody is buying them.

talkingnonsense · 04/10/2011 08:38

Chunkypickle, that malay outfit you linked to looked lovely and cool and pretty. And probably very sensible to be covered in a hot country. I do worry a bit about vitamin d here- is that not why shorts were part of school uniform in the 40s and 50s?

cantspel · 04/10/2011 08:45

I thinl when parents put their young children into this sort of garment it is more about conditioning them than anything else. A young child has very little control over what they wear so if they train them to wear it when young by they time they are into puberty then they just carry on wearing it as they have been conditioned to see it as their dress requirments.

It is all very sad and not needed in a western society.
These garments came into being 2000 years ago in desert contries where it made sense to protect yourself from the heavy sun and blowing sands when traveling through desert conditions. It is hardly the same as getting the number 9 bus to tescos in 2011.

mama2plusbump · 04/10/2011 08:45

I cover and wear the full veil, my dds dont. Dd1 is at preschool
And islamic one and chooses to wear dresses/trousers/tops/jeans. No headscarf although 95% of the girls do.
The difference is my dd2 wants to wear one! And lok like me even if i tell her not to! Kids want to copy thier mums dont always be so judgy!

yummybunny · 04/10/2011 08:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cantspel · 04/10/2011 08:53

There we go again lets judge mothers who let their dd's wear mini skirts but how dare anyone judge someone who goes to the other extreme.

slavetofilofax · 04/10/2011 08:58

It's not about judging Mothers who completely their dd's, I think most people, even if uncomfortable with it, respect your traditions and your right to choose. But there is no place for it in a school with uniform.

oohlaalaa · 04/10/2011 09:00

YANBU. The girls are being conditioned.

GooseyLoosey · 04/10/2011 09:05

Is it religious though?

In what way is it a matter of faith that women should cover up in order to stop men behaving badly? This is a long way from dressing modestly.

It seems to me that this is a cultural practice masquerading as religion.

How far does tolerance have to go? It seems to me that the prevailing culture here is one of equality and tolerance of difference. That's great, but what should happen when the tolerance of difference cuts across the principle of equality, which should prevail?

metalelephant · 04/10/2011 09:07

As a little girl I wore shorts and trainers and vests and felt comfortable - just like the little boys were. How can anyone condone such discrimination against their daughters but allow their sons to dress immodestly is beyond me. That's just double standards that should have no place in a free society. The rest is justification of the subjugation of women, covering up a young child should not be allowed, no matter what.

ThePosieParker · 04/10/2011 09:11

mama2plusbump Tue 04-Oct-11 08:45:37
I cover and wear the full veil, my dds dont. Dd1 is at preschool
And islamic one and chooses to wear dresses/trousers/tops/jeans. No headscarf although 95% of the girls do.
The difference is my dd2 wants to wear one! And lok like me even if i tell her not to! Kids want to copy thier mums dont always be so judgy!

Perhaps you shouldn't cover then, if your daughters want to copy you and become invisible. It's a very sad state of affairs when mothers pass on this sort of thinking to their daughters....very sad indeed.

Xenia · 04/10/2011 09:21

It's not religion. It's ignorance. The Koran doesn't require it. British culture doesn't either. You cannot play properly just like little girls in Victorian England could not. You cannot jump over a skiping rope. You call over long clothes. It is discriminatory compared with boys and keeps women down and controlled. I wouldn't ban it but I hope we can convince most people to give up and I am behind schools which do because often the girls are delighted when it's banned because they dont' have to wear the wretched stuff in schoo.

Meteorite · 04/10/2011 09:29

YANBU

fedupofnamechanging · 04/10/2011 09:38

Never thought I'd say it, but I agree with Xenia.

Doesn't the Koran say that both men and women should dress modestly? Modestly, does not mean females covering up completely in heavy black clothing, while the men with them walk around in shorts and a t-shirt.

This isn't about religion. It's about religion being used as a means to oppress women.

metalelephant · 04/10/2011 09:48

The Koran says something along the lines of "women draw your veils to cover your breasts", at the time a lot of women were bare breasted in public. So, unless you have breasts on your head, the whole covering up issue is overdoing it it seems.

TheSecondComing · 04/10/2011 09:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

choceyes · 04/10/2011 09:50

YANBU.

I also dont' think it is religious, more a cultural thing. I grew up in a country where there were a few muslims (majority was buddhist), and none of the girls wore the full cover up at school. They all wore school uniform of a normal dress (yes with bare legs too), and a few wore a headscarf with the dress.
So I defnitely think it's more a cultural thing in countries such as in the Middle East.

Riveninabingle · 04/10/2011 12:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Matildathebrave · 04/10/2011 12:05

Sounds cruel to me.

fedupofnamechanging · 04/10/2011 12:06

But at school, there is an accepted uniform, so parents don't have free choice in what their children wear. I wish there was, then I wouldn't have just spent the best part of £400 buying overpriced crap for my kids to wear to school. But that is the rule, I knew it when I chose my children's schools and I just have to accept that. I don't see why other people can say the rules don't apply to them, on religious grounds. why are their religious views more important than my desire not to spend lots of money on overpriced uniform?