AIBU to think that children should be reading when they start school?

[horribledinners]

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, I started having kids 20+ years ago, but I, and all my brothers and sisters were taught to read and write by my parents before we started primary school. I taught my two older kids to read and begin to learn to write letters in time for them starting primary education, and would be ashamed if ds3 couldn't recognise letters and be able to read by the time he starts school.

I completely understand that there have been many confusing 'experiments' in education since then, the abandonment of phonics was a tragedy in my opinion; but do parents really think its the schools job to teach kids to read and write and do they not even give an introduction to reading and writing anymore?

I would love to know if this is a generational thing. I know for certain its not a class thing as we were very poor growing up and my Mum would take us out to the bus-stop and make us read out the notices!

I have not read all the thread, but with ds1 I read to him every night, looked atletter sounds, desperately tried to get hime to write his name, draw proper pictures but nothing worked with him, he just was not ready to learn these skills. He started school and the change in him was amazing, like someone had flicked a switch. You can not force a child to learn to read or write, they have to be ready in themselves and in my experience (8 years in a reception class), most children do not read on entry to school, but did have some basic phonic knowledge. Ds1 is now in year one and he can 'read' in that he can decode words, uses phonics and has a basic vocabulary but he is working on actually 'reading' as in understnding the text, predicting what may happen, thinking about the characters, there is far more to reading than just knowing a whole bunch of words on a page!

YABU and very ill informed!

1. Children tend to learn letters and sounds in nursery if they attend and lots of parents still do teach children the basics.
2. Not all children are academic.
3. Phonics are taught in schools now, just as they were then, using sounding out and they also get this for the first term.
4. Lots of children can read but are unable to toilet or dress without help which is far worse imo.

I would be far more embarrassed if my NT DD2 entered school being unable to wipe her own backside!

Oh and just for the record both my dds are able to read - at 3.6 and 5.9 yo so it isn't sour grapes, but YABU

Pag and cory you both make good points

I think I could have been one of those "basking in reflected glory parents" except that DS1 has mild dyslexia and that made me stop and realise that he is who he is not some proxy for my aims and ambitions. It made me take a step back and look at my son for the lovely and sometimes infuriating interesting child he is. I am really proud of the spirit he has shown in working on his reading and by taking things at his pace he has done well to catch up to reading around his chronological age (his spelling is another matter ). I didn't really expect to be the parent who went to the school and ask them to put my child down a book band because he wasn't really ready to move up but I never felt any "shame" in doing so only pride and respect for my DS1 for trying so hard.

Just out of interest what do you do for a living now?

Well Chaz I think you do indeed have a brilliant attitude and your son is lucky to have a Mum that thinks like you. Your are so so right.

Oh and while we are at it, I agree that there is much much more to teach them. For example the life of the frog by visiting ponds, how crustacea look in the flesh by collecting crabs on the beach and examining empty shells, identifying their skull bones/ eye sockets, learning about which trees yield conkers, acorns, pine cones and using these things to create paintings, stencils, bark rubbings etc. learning where wool, milk, eggs, honey come from and the processes that make them. Plenty of time to sit at a desk when they get to school!

Blimey! I read the OP and then skimmed through and couldn't believe how many YABUs there were. Surely children should at least have an idea of the basics by the time they start school? Actually if you read to them regularly as most parents do I can't see how even children who aren't 'natural' readers can avoid picking up some of it and being able to recognise common words.

What really drives me mad is the argument that teachers won't like it because you might be teaching them 'wrong'. What a load of rubbish. If they are reading well then how can it be wrong? Dd was a good reader well before she went to school and I don't recall her teacher asking what method we used or saying "oh what a shame she can already read, now I won't be able to teach her the correct way".
Actually we didn't use a 'method', she wasn't pushed just picked it up as we went along, and yes I know we were lucky but saying that my sister and I were the same and so was dh so we didn't realise it wasn't the norm until dd started school. So perhaps it is partly a generational thing after all.

pixel I asked that same question about parents teaching them "wrong"

Don't know how that works ...I taught them to read in English -like the school!

If they have grasped it, then jobs done IMO.

It wouldn't hurt to learn the phonics rules on top ,or visa versa.

I've read regularly to both my children since they were tiny babies, and yet ds started school in the UK without having no interest in letters, never mind reading.
Oh he loved listening to us reading, and knew many books by heart. Yet he couldn't care less about the alphabet etc, a disinterest a 4 yrs old is perfectly entitled to.

There were many other skills I taught him in the first 4 yrs that school can't teach. Let them teach the children to read, they are paid for it!

Pixel & Feminine I think some of the issues can be around the children learning letter names (e.g. ay, bee, cee) rather than letter sounds (e.g a as in ant) which can make decoding new words more difficult.

There is no one right way to learn to read but some children might be reading but still lacking some of the foundation blocks which will help them with more complex text later.

yabu my ds2 whoes 4.9 can not read /write he has sn kids are not all the same ya know

Thanks chazs I can see what you are talking about:)

"Pixel & Feminine I think some of the issues can be around the children learning letter names (e.g. ay, bee, cee) rather than letter sounds (e.g a as in ant) which can make decoding new words more difficult."

That's why I couldn't understand the problem then as we taught dd both (the letter's name is ' ', the sound it makes is ' '. Never occurred to me to do it differently tbh. No wonder children get confused when they are only given half the information.

YANBU most of my class could read and write a little ( certainly their names, up to 10 and simple words) when they started school. My father used to give me mini lessons after lunch every day to be sure I was ready.

You're entitled to your opinion but I don't agree with it as in my view:

• you can only teach a child to read if there is interest from the child - you can't force it
• I have read constantly to my DS since he was a few months old. He loves books but when I have tried to help him along with reading, his stock response was 'Stop it ... I'll learn to read when I'm older'
• I'd prefer to encourage a love of books rather than pushing the reading thing when he's not ready
• He has just started school and is now showing more interest now as he is beginning to learn with friends at school
• The school obviously weren't concerned that he couldn't read or even write his name at that time as he had to undergo an assessment before he was offered a place - he demonstrated his intelligence in other ways

YABU. What difference does it really make in the long term? I could read before I started school, I was an academic child anyway so not sure how much it was down to my parents, and how much my own interest. But I made a conscious decision not to teach my sons, just to take their lead on any interest they showed in reading (and numbers, and, well everything really). They're bright children and I'm sure if I'd pushed they would have been reading early, but I think pre-school is for fun and developing awareness of the world, their own interests etc. Nursery get them writing their name and learning some phonics anyway. And then when they go to school they're excited to learn to read alongside their classmates. They learn and understand the strategy they use in school, rather than being bored because they already know it all. Seems to be working for our family. DS1 has just started school and is cracking on with reading. He's just turned 5 and is totally ready for it now. DS2 is still only 3 but is picking up loads from his enthused older brother, won't be surprised if he is reading when he starts school next year, but it'll have been off his own back and not through his parents pushing him.

YABU

We have read to DD from birth, several books during the day and 2 books each night from about 18m. She could recognise Tesco when she started nursery but she wasn't "reading" it, she was seeing a picture.

She's just started school, she's a July baby, she can write her name and is just starting to form letters and words.

I would never have expected her to read by the time she started school.

I do think it's a parent's responsibility to read to children from an early age and have books available. That way if they're keen to learn they'll have the opportunity to.

Pixel, sorry that's a load of twaddle. As per my previous post, my hubbie and I read constantly to my DS and have done since he was small. His bedroom looks like a library and he's a bright child. Maybe some of it's down to a boy/girl thing - many boys just aren't as interested at that age, whereas girls are happier to sit down and learn, colour in etc.

YABU to expect everyone to be the same as you. I couldn't read before starting school more than 20 years ago. It wasn't a problem then, it's not a problem now. My 5 year old is in Year 1. She still can't read but is at least now prepared to try sounding out words which is real progress compared to 12 months ago. I am obviously a terrible parent and she is doomed to fail in the same way that I have, possibly by obtaining very good GCSEs, A Levels and a Russell Group university degree as well as post-graduate professional qualification. I think that I can live with the embarrassment.

If you started having dc 20+ years ago - then your dc would not have started school at the same time as they do now. 20+ years ago, children still started full-time school the term they turned 5yo IN. Now, you can have a child that turns 4yo on August 31st - and has to go to FT school 2 /3 days later - so almost a full YEAR younger than your older dc would have been when they started school. How many children that have just turned 4yo canm read.

OK, I personally could, and so could DS1, but DD couldn't, and neither could DS2. DS3 remains to be seen - but I feel that a lot of whether a child can read before starting school these days depends on what time of year their birtday is. I would expect most children whose birthdays are before Christmas to be reading at least some words, if not lots. Children with birthdays between Christmas and Easter - some will, some won't. Children whose birthdays are between Easter and June, probably only a few will be able to read some words. Children born after June, but starting FT school at only a few days - a couple of months after their 4th birthday - Nope, would be a very rare 4yo that could read fluently, sorry.

OP - YABU, school starting age has changed considerably even since my (almost) 8yo started school, let alone since my 13yo started, and since my 20yo brother started school, the starting age has changed by up to a full YEAR earleir than it was when he started.

I don't think it is a generational thing. I do think there are some people out there who think like my mother-in-law.

She is forever telling me how DH did x,y and z at a specific early age where as my father-in-law (who was my husband's main carer so to speak) tells me it's complete rubbish that she spouts and that he was very average if not a little behind as a small child. He certainly caught up though and ended up with a masters and great career (which my mother-in-law thinks is all down to her and her excellent parenting.)

Unfortunately my mother-in-law equates early development with good parenting. I know she means well as our DD, her only grandchild, is a very early reader but she is always going on about how bright she is and putting other children down in the process. I don't like that.

You are being very unreasonable to suggest that all children should be reading before school as clearly some children are not ready. Just because yours were doesn't mean everyone else's should be.

YABU.

UK is one of few places that focus on reading "so early".

Its fine if kids are hungry for it. But lots aren't. If your child ants it. Then great, nurish it. But don't stress otherwise.

The USA, northern Scandavian Countries, South Africa, China don't. And there is no difference in attainment by the time they get to teens.

mine didn't read starting P1?didnt expect them to either

So OP, how much more advanced are you than the following generation, given that you were able to read when you started school?

I don't think YABU to think that children should be read to, exposed to letters, words and vocabulary (although it seems very random to pick 'reading' above all other things children are taught at school), but I do think YABU to think that children should be reading when they start school.

I'm a Kiwi. We start school here at 5 years of age. In fact, parents can wait until up to the age of 6 before sending their children, but most start on their 5th birthday.

I'm in my late 30s and my parents read to me from the get go, and tried to teach me to read and write before school, but I wasn't interested and, wisely, they didn't push it. The last thing they wanted to was hamper my love of reading, or make learning seem in any way unappealing.

So, I started school - aged 5! - unable to read or write (although obviously able to recognise letters and words). So did the vast bulk of my peers. My love of reading was well and truly entrenched at school, and I finished my education 17 years later with three degrees, including an Hons and an MA.

You might be interested in New Zealand's primary school education system. It's quite impressive.