Funerals/unpaid leave....and 'respect'

[troisgarcons]

Run with me on this one before the pitchforks come out.

Many of us get to a certain age when funerals of friends parents (and our own parents) become more frequent. These are people who, had us in their houses growning up and quite often you still maintain a good relationship with.

Most of us that work have a certain flexibily, either to swap shifts or may be work a lunch hour and leave early etc if there is a childcare issue or medical appt.

However it's becoming more and more prevalent that if you verify there is a funeral you would like to attend (the only exceptions being parent/spouse/child) that you are expected to take unpaid leave.

There was a time when it was expected that a business would shut down for the afternoon of a funeral and every one went. Simply because its respectful.

Over the past three years, some long serving albeit retired staff where I work have passed on. The funerals were at 3pm, same time as the school hours finish. Only two staff were allowed to go to 'represent' despite lessons would have been easily covered.

There was a funeral recently I wanted to go to (parent of a dear friend) and I offered to swap 2 lunch breaks for an early getaway. Refused point blank and told to take unpaid leave as flexi time wasn't ever going to happen and I shouldnt ask for it.

Similarly, at BILS workplace (large blue chip company), a woman lost her husband and was told she would get 3 days paid leave to 'sort things' and she was expected back at her desk on the 4th day.

Im not suggesting people should become professional mourners, and seek to attend funerals for the hell of it/on a whim but where the heck has respect gone?

"Everyone knows which relatives they have that are about to pop their clogs. Why can't individuals make the necessary savings to enable them to take time off work"

mindthegap My Mum died 7 years ago and I find the heartless "pop your clogs" comment tasteless and insensitive - so god knows how someone who has lost a loved one a lot sooner must feel reading that!

Death Im afraid doesnt work quite as simple as you have made out - people of all ages can die, not just elderly people - and is death of a loved one we are talking about here - not "popping their clogs".

I pity someone who can show such a lack of compassion and make such a flippant remark to be honest.

Thatsenough, I'm so sorry about your loss. An old friend of mine lost her mum vet unexpectedly this summer - totally out of the blue. It's absolutely devastating to lose someone in this way, no matter how much you tell yourself that it was good that they didn't suffer etc.

Mindthegappp - there are people on this thread who have very recently been bereaved. Your comments are insensitive.

Mindthegap - time for me to leave this thread, I am shaking with anger at your posts and could do without the additional stress you are creating.

To the rest of you, thank you for your kind words and support, I need to get the first day back at work over with tomorrow as I've been building myself up to it all week - if I can't cope then I will pay a visit to my GP.

very not vet

You can choose to be uber-sensitive if you like.

Popping your clogs is a well known, tried-and-tested, euphemism.

Look up the definition of euphemism if you don't identify with the concept.

I lost my mother just a few months ago. I have been there and done that. I would abolutely not expect huge amounts of paid leave. I had three days which was fine for me. Five days would have been reasonable had I been making arrangments. More than that, in my case, would have been takeing the P.

When my Dad died, it was unexpected, my employers said to take as much time as I needed and I went back just over a week later. My lovely boss greeted me at the door took me for coffee and said was I sure I wanted to come back so soon and if I wanted any more time off just to take it. It was a very family friendly company

So sorry for your loss Whatevertheweather :(

I am self employed so can't comment on policies for funeral attendance and pay but what I can add is that this past 7 months I have attended 7 funerals, not because I fancied a day off work, but because each of the people meant something very important to me and I wanted to be part of their rite of passage

I have lost earnings because I attended their funerals but money means nothing when you have lost someone who touched your life

I don't think that companies should bear the brunt financially though, a funeral should be attended with love and compassion .....and without worrying how much money you will be losing in wages

I am disgusted by the time frame that the bereaved are given to 'get over their loss' though - its rather heartless

I wouldn't expect paid time off except for a close relative's funeral. They have to draw the line somewhere.

I also pity people who seem to think you can get over the death of a loved one and get back to "normal" life as if nothing has happened as soon as possible. Not surprisingly in my job as a Psychiatric Nurse I see a lot of people with this type of coping mechanism long after the bereavement because of unprocessed grief.

On a thread where people have been recently bereaved it is totally inappropriate to use "pop your clogs" - regardless of how well known and well used mind the gap you think this phrase is.

thatsenough I truly hope your day goes ok tomorrow but I really believe it's too soon for you to be thinking about work. Please dont soldier on, but see your GP if you need to. I honestly believe rushing the process just stores up issues for further down the line.

mindthegap everyone is different. While I don't think your comments are helpful it's obvious from other comments that your view is fairly common. When I was a manager though I tended to want to support my staff.

whatever also sorry for your loss.

Am shocked at hoe bereaved people have been treated on this thread.

A friend at work had a father with terminal cancer. We worked a plane ride away. Each of the three time they thought he would die, our company PAID for his flight home and leave and then again when his father actually did die.

He was not a big manager in the company, just a member of staff who our company treated with respect in his time of need.

notness when I was much younger I knew a girl who's mother was in a hospice at the opposite end of town. The girl was going out with a colleague, but he left the company at that time so the girl didn't have access to a car as her BF didn't get one in the new job. So the company just quietly hired a car for my friend for the three months it took for her mum to pass. I have never forgotten that and I always thought well of that firm.

Ratspeak I work within NHS, its two week compassionate leave for immediate relatives (longer at managements discretion.) a week for extended family and friends would be at managers discretion too for the funeral.
Very very supportive, very much like Highlanders experience.

Blimey even when I was interviewed for my job, it came up that I had lost my dad 3 years previous and I got a little emotional explaining it. They asked if I would be ok, I apologised and said yes I was and would be fine , it was just the memory making me tearful. They explained the reason they asked if I was ok was so that when I started , strategies and a support system would be in place for me for when I started should I need them.
The NHS are usually very understanding in circumstances regarding bereavement so I am quite shocked at Ratspeaks post.

As for mindthegap your comments are incredibly hurtful, not everyone has a black/white bereavement and not everyone can deal with it in the cold and calculated way you suggest.

I am appalled at your insensitivity

Mindthegap...what a heartless bitch you are! Clearly you've not dealt with your grief for your own mother. I hope it hits you like a ton of bricks soon...then you'll look back at these comments and be ashamed at how you've treated recently bereaved people.

No amibeingdaft I would not wish the ton of bricks grief on anyone. I thought I had coped pretty well with dads death until 6 months down the line, then I hit the floor with grief. I would not wish that sort of pain on anyone.
Mindthegap is to be pitied for her lack of empathy surely speaks volumes about how sad her life already is , with no tone, no emotion and although I and it would seem may others here are appalled by her comments She is to be pitied .

When i worked in the banking industry, they expected people back at their desks within 3 days, even for a spouse. I know of someone who is an area manager and they have just been bereaved and had to be signed off for a week as 'stress', so they could sort the funeral out. Perhaps at one time it could be done quickly but now you have to make an appointment to register a death and then do the rest.

When my mum worked for one of the companies owned by John Moores, they sent her on a respite holiday after she lost my dad. They had villa's and hotels they used for this purpose, another woman went because she had to have a hysterectomy, if one company can do it then others should rectify why they cannot, cut down on Christmas parties for the shareholders, perhaps.

Mindthegapp- sometimes you don't just have your own grief to deal with. When my DH died, i had my three DD's, youngest 6 years old, and 5 SDC's to help through it, also.

Fit2drop, you are a much nicer person than me, and you are totally right. I don't really wish pain on anyone. I apologise for that.

I work for a law firm - you get a days compassionate leave for the funeral of an immediate family member (ie parent, grandparent, sibling, step-parent, step-sibling etc). Friends or members of extended family you're expected to take it as leave, unpaid if you have no holiday left.

In addition you get 3 days compassionate leave, but this is the max and would only be given for immediate family. In exceptional cases I can authorise up to a week. Anything extra again you take as unpaid/paid leave.

Doesn't sound a lot but still better than the firm I worked for when my dad died. I took the week off after he died as holiday (it was that or unpaid, no compassionate leave), and fielded work calls most of that time. I was 25, and he was the only remaining member of my immediate family. I had to organise funeral and wake on my own, clear his house and sort out everything else, all in a week. Shortly after my return to work, I was called into a meeting to discuss my poor performance over the previous few weeks Without doubt that was the worst job I've ever had.

It's a tricky one, because the needs of the bereaved have to be balanced with the needs of the rest of the workforce and indeed the needs of the business. Big companies are better equipped to manage an employee needing some time off in a hurry (though sadly a lot of them won't be flexible about it), small companies might be sympathetic to the needs of the bereaved employee but not so sympathetic that they can pay someone to be on leave indefinitely when this might lead to lost business ie the company goes under and all the other employees lose their jobs. It's particularly tricky for a small business if one employee suffers a bereavement and then so does another one in the same time period.

It's also true that some people actually prefer to go back to work sooner rather than later: they would rather be occupied than at home with nothing to think about but their loss. And there are all sorts of other factors to contend with as well: whether the death was sudden or long-anticipated, whether the employee actually liked the relative very much (when I was younger and sillier I remember being uneasy about my friend's apparently callous reaction to her father's death... until she explained to me just how abusive he had been.)

amibeingdaft No worries, and definitely no need to apologise to me, trust me I am not so nice

Unfortunately Mindthegap has upset a number of posters with her insensitivity

how weird dont know how or why ^^^ happened

In the US, its very common to get 2-5 days off to attend a funeral. Companies to specify which relationships would qualify. For example, immediate family would include spouse, children, parents, and siblings. Some companies are more generous and include grandparents, uncles, aunts, and so on.

Dp had 2 days compassionate leave in the last week of the school year to sort out hospice/district nursing care for his mother. 'Fortunately' he then broke up from school and was able to care for her until she died in the middle of the summer holidays.

Given the stress/level of care she needed and the support FIL needed with funeral arrangements etc I'm not sure what we would have done had this occurred in the school term time.

3 days wouldn't have been enough.

In my experience I've found that Compassionate Leave is one of the things that the Military does very well.

I was overseas when my brother died. I was flown home within 24hrs and told 'plan on 2 weeks, then see how you feel', when I booked my flight back I was asked if it would be easier to return to work, but stay in UK (I said no).

About 6 months later my aunt died. My boss immediately asked if I needed to go home (was back in Uk by then) to be with my parents (he knew they were elderly).

I have also lost friends on Ops, each time was given 'Authorised Absence' (free days off) to meet the plane and to attend the funeral. In one case was given 4 days off to provide childcare for the widow (who was also a good friend).

I have also worked in that area, and have been happy to see that my experience seems to be the norm.

I suppose the issue is money - the MOD don't lose any when it's staff are absent. A smaller, non-public 'business' would.

When I lost a parent suddenly in my early 20's I took 6 working days off, went back to work and no more was said about it.
So I suppose I fitted into the 'get on with it' brigade...who thought a person should 'return to normal ASAP'

Well... Let me tell you, if you ignore grief at first, you will face it later on in bucket loads .... things never 'returned to normal' and looking back, I was ill for a good number of years.
Peo