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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think that I CAN have it all?

223 replies

TransatlanticCityGirl · 21/09/2011 22:27

I was watching The Wright Stuff Extra the other day and once again, the whole "it's just not possible to have it all" topic came up again. Oh Lord....

This debate often leads me to wonder:

Just what exactly do these women define as "having it all"? Have they set their standards to an impossibly high level? And then and only then will they be happy?

How come men never worry about "having it all"? Do they think they already have it? Do they not want it? Or simply that would they rather just watch telly rather than think about it?

I personally think I CAN have it all, and while it may not be a walk in the park, it is not impossible and it doesn't even take an exceptional kind of woman to achieve it either. And in much the same way as money earned is far more rewarding that money won, achieving a happy well-rounded life will be far more rewarding that taking an easier route, e.g. sacrificing either my career or the family I want.

I believe that I can and will have it all. And in fact, I believe I already have it (although I do plan on taking it to the next level when I am ready). There is nothing more at this particular point in my life that I would want. I have an amazing husband, a daughter who brings me joy, a successful career, a lovely home, financial security, good friends and a recipe for the bestest cupcakes ever.

So what's the big deal? Why am I always hearing other women on TV complaining that you just can't have it all?

OP posts:
BelleDameSansMerci · 22/09/2011 06:36

WorkingItOut has said pretty much what I was going to say (except that I am, sadly, not on the board of a FTSE100, I just work for one).

I had my DD very late (at nearly 42) and so my career was well established. I think this makes it easier. If you have children before getting started on your career, however, it must be very different.

I would also say that, basically, you can only 'have it all' if you earn enough to pay for it.

chandellina · 22/09/2011 06:42

Of course women can have happy family lives and careers. I hate all the doom mongers.

Xenia · 22/09/2011 06:42

It is a very sexist concept sayign you cannot "have it all". It is used as a device to keep women down. How often is it used against men? Never. You don't say to a male senior lawyer or banker often who has a full ti me working professional wife because celver successful people usually want the same in their spouse, you cannot have i t all.

Does it not depend what all is? Most clever people who like their work who have children don't want to be home or working part time hours. We love the children in smallish doses but we don't want to a cleaner/nanny doing dull stuff. Therefore we don't want that "all" - that minimum wage cleaner all. We like trying to be home for bed time all but we don't want to be at boring school gates with dull housewife mothers. We hate those things and are so lucky through our careers and income to avoid that bit of the all.

However if you marry a sexist man then you certainly do have more problems. Most of us though are far too clever to tolerate sexism at home even for one day. A penis doesn't mean you can't pick up a phone and arrange childcare.

donthateme · 22/09/2011 06:50

I don't think the phrase 'having it all' is a helpful one because it implies something which is Almost impossible to achieve and which leaves women feeling run ragged, exhausted and with no time to enjoy the fruits of their achievements.

I prefer to look at it that working and having children are just normal things to do. If you have been working and building a career 'pre-children, there is no reason why as a woman you cant continue to do so. Of course, childcare will take up a big chunk, or all, of one income for a while, but that's the reality 'for many of us and you just ride through that for the sake of the long term. At Least nowadays With tax credits and a couple of days free childcare at age 3, its a lot easier financially for parents to work.

As a teacher, I am a firm believer that there are people who embrace a busy productive life, and others who shy away from it- maybe out of fear that they cant manage it, or for other reasons. Its interesting to see how often the teenagers who achieve an excellent set of exams and are heading for good universities and careers, are very often the same ones who play in the school orchestra, represent the school at sport and probably hold down a weekend job too. Its not that they have any more hours in the week, it's about a mindset.

So I think if we stop using the phrase 'having it all' and just normalise the fact that most men and women have children and continue working, then it won't have overtones of superhuman beings who zap around at 100 miles an hour all day and then collapse into bed exhausted with no time for themselves

BelleDameSansMerci · 22/09/2011 06:57

Xenia I think I love you (although you're too cool to care).

PonceyMcPonce · 22/09/2011 07:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Robotindisguise · 22/09/2011 07:03

I suspect if you're financially secure, you have a cleaner?

And how much does your DH do around the house? If he pulls his weight, it would seem from speaking to friends etc that you're fortunate because a lot expect to do bugger all and that's a constant (and wearing) battle.

I "have it all" but I am knackered and I do have a cleaner once a month. I have a DH who does some stuff but not all. I do proportionately more, which pisses me off (and believe me, I do kick up a fuss but sometimes that feels like yet another wearing - and not terribly effective - task)

Alibabaandthe80nappies · 22/09/2011 07:14

Well I have my all, and would loathe your all.

And I would hate to be a smug as you OP. At least have the good grace to accept that there is an element of luck to life.

emmyloo2 · 22/09/2011 07:21

I think both men and women have to make choices in their lives and if you have children you do have to make sacrifices I believe. I think I have everything I want. I have a full-time job I love and am qualified for, a gorgeous husband and a 10 month old DS. We have a nice house and I have good friends. So I guess I could be described as "having it all". That said, I have worked incredibly hard over the last 10 years in my career to be in a position where I am quite senior and have flexibility in my job. I also have a husband who shares 50% of childcare and have a MIL and mother who look after DS full-time. So hard work and luck play a part. Am I at the top of my field though? No. I could earn more money in a more prestigous job but I deliberately chose the job I am doing because of the flexibility.

donthateme · 22/09/2011 07:22

I think the ops life sounds great- I wouldn't loathe it. And I don't Read the op as 'smug'. I think she asks an interesting question. The phrase 'having it all' has actually been unhelpful and inaccurate. Having a career and children should not be seen as some superhuman feat. The sooner it's normalised that women and men can be parents and work the better

Alouiseg · 22/09/2011 07:23

When having it all turns into doing it all is where the problems start.

SeoraeMaeul · 22/09/2011 07:30

I actually think its a bit sad that as women we sit around having this debate (all be it often driven by the media going off on some over hyped generalisation). The implication is we judge each other based on our own version of what "it all" is.
I wrote a long reply based on my version of why I have "it all" when I suddenly thought of some of my friends : the one who is hugely successful but only considered she had "it all" after finally having a baby after 8 years of IVF, another who quite firmly believes she has "it all" because she doesn't and never will have a child and then again one who only deemed she had "it all" when she had the luxury of time by stopping work.
Why is any one of these scenarios better than the other or indeed my own?
The sooner we stop competing with each other of who has the best version of "it all" then I suspect the more normal it will be to have kids and work.
(But then does everyone want to just be "normal" or do some people actually like the competition especially if they think they are winning?)

butterflyexperience · 22/09/2011 07:35

Darling have you not seen the new Sarah j Parker film!
It will answer all your questions and leave you feeling even more disheartened...

donthateme · 22/09/2011 07:35

Seorsae- In fairness I think the op is referring to the phrase 'having it all' in its widely used context of being a mum and having a career. I agree that anyone of any age can feel they have 'it all' at points when their life seems well balanced and productive.

SeoraeMaeul · 22/09/2011 07:45

Donthateme - I get that, I guess I think its sad that it is so widely used - and frankly women can sometimes be their own worse enemies in continuing its use. If we continue to use it in that context, then what hope is there of it being deemed "normal" to balance kids and work? It will always be seen as "it all" and either something a woman is failing at achieving (whether deliberately or by design) or something that she is superwoman for having been successful at.

Xenia · 22/09/2011 07:45

Many many women and men with children work full time. It is not some rare thing that is impossible to achieve. Those who earn quite a bit find life quite a bit easier as you can pay for help. I can contrast myself aged 26 with 3 children under 5 not much money commuting to the City, no power at work, not iin charge etc all clothes second hand etc etc with having the twins 10 years after t hat when I was my own boss, more money and getting the baby clothes was 30 minutes ordering from a Motehrcare catalogue rather going round to people's houses to look at second hand high chairs as we'd done first time. So if women work and are well paid their lives are easier, not harder.

The key as everyone is saying is never tolerate sexism. if the man won't do the washing don't do his. If he won't cook don't give him a meal. IT is dead easy. Of course it probably h elps if you earn 10x what he does but even if you don't you just don't pick those sexists ones. The first time you have a meal at yours or his house with him you establish you don't do sexism. Breasts don't mean you clean or wash up. You get that fairness established from the start and never pick a man who grew up in a sexist household.

(The film (but perhaps not the book) is pretty sexist as the underlying message is women are responsible for children, men don't do much of that and the woman ends up giving up her job. It is in that respect a very anti-women/anti women working film).

SeoraeMaeul · 22/09/2011 07:46

sorry should have been ...whether unintentionally or by design...

donthateme · 22/09/2011 07:48

The film is entertainment. If anyone doesn't get that, its really worrying !

wicketkeeper · 22/09/2011 07:49

You can have it all - but in my experience you just don't have it all at the same time. When the kids are young you need to spend time on them. But they're not young forever, and then it's your turn. I think the decision as to whether you 'have it all' can only be made at the end of your working life, not in your 20's or 30's.

And I don't believe in luck. I believe in bloody hard work, having an idea of what you want, and then doing what you need to do to achieve it. If I have it all (and I feel like I've got a fair amount of it) it's because I've worked for it.

iliketherain · 22/09/2011 07:52

Xenia you are very sad and always will put work before your children........They may well be well looked after by the minimum wage hired help and live in a clean house cleaned by the boring dull cleaner.

But it is ''time'' children need and lots of it something with your high powered over minimum wage job YOU cannot give.

You defend the working mum so vigorously I am sure you do so because you feel guilty at the way your children were brought up by someone else.

Have you ever thought that the ladies and gents at the school gates would find you boring and are probably glad you don't grace the school gates at all.

weevilswobble · 22/09/2011 07:56

If you have it all someone else misses out. By all means aim for a balanced and satisfying life, but having it all sounds like spoilt brat to me. We all have to find our space, not too big and not too small and fit in and play our part in the big jigsaw of society and life. It's give and take. Not take and take.
I have a greenhouse and a cat and 2 healthy children and my own business and a small third hand caravan. Very happy, but i'm poor. Wouldnt have it any other way.

donthateme · 22/09/2011 08:00

What a nasty post liketherain. Are you one of those people who thinks that mums and dads who work aren't raising their own children? Or maybe you're one of those sexist people who only applies that rule to mums!!

Xenia knows her children better than we do', and I guess if they are happy, successful and well adjusted, then they wouldn't consider they've missed out at all. In fact they may feel that its down to the parenting they've had which has helped them get where they are

ithaka · 22/09/2011 08:02

I think I have it all - wonderful children, interesting job, lovely husband and my own horses (always a childhood dream!).

I am not 'lucky' - in fact, my husband and I are the unluckiest people on the planet. Love and determination are what has made our happy home. You've got to work for it, in every area of life. I know things won't just fall into my lap, I have to go out and make them happen, so I have.

Other people would hate my life (including poo picking muddy fields in winter!) but we all want different things.

donthateme · 22/09/2011 08:06

Absolutely agree ithaka. I'll give the poo picking a miss though!

Xenia · 22/09/2011 08:08

Often I work at home so I'm not sure I am the best whipping boy for housewives to target really. I know lots of full time working men and women who like me want to maximise time with their children but combine that with full time interesting well paid careers. That is a win win. A win is not having time to polish the floor or sing wheels on a bus 40 times not twice a day. Women and men have always been like that - in all cultures they find people to help with looking after children are in large doses it's pretty dull.

In small doses and in our day to day love of them it is of course wonderful which is why those of us lucky to have a lot of money or who worked hard to get it or slept a rich man to get it or who are on benefits can afford to have large families which those women who made poor career choices or bad marriage decisions cannot.

Another issue in the having it all debate (for men and women) is expectations. Life is hard. It was always hard and always will be. No one has an entitlement to a princess life. You get what you put into it. The point above about busy children at school often also being the successful ones is true and of adults too. A lot of people just cannot copoe with doing too much and others can do a lot. I seem to be able to do a lot and indeed it's embarrassing how often people come up and say how do you do it etc etc but it's just a mixture of things - happiness, enthusiams, eating well so that I feel good and perhaps just luck or genes and liking what I do. Same with a househusband/wife - if you adore 24/7 with babies then you are happy. You can be just as happy as a milkman as a banker. Happiness is about brain chemistry, not about the day to day reality of a life.