to have imagined that 5 years after the birth of first child, I'd have found a good hang out buddy in the land of local motherhood?

[yadahyadah]

Christ, school has started and with it the pick-up/drop-off hell of skirting round the mums whose parenting I happen to not agree with but don't make a deal out of it, but who in turn call my self assured daughter 'bossy' in an "only jokin, just havin a laff" way that makes me wish for a sniper unit as my backup.

I have friends from school (only 1, I'm no prom freak) a couple from university and many from working life (but not too many - I'm not flesh-pressing networker from hell) but in the land of motherhood I have been sadly dismayed at the lack of quality my kind of womanhood out here.

And the NCT brigade just DID MY HEAD IN.

I know I know the pond is huge and there is no funneling system to rely on. But jeez, you'd imagine there'd be someone... Anyone else out there finding it a wilderness?

I think you get out what you put in, tbh. It seems odd that of the five other women in your NCT class, they were all awful. I also think if you do have a fairly close relationship with "bossy" woman, perhaps she didn't mean anything by it, and was describing your DD's behaviour at that moment in time (or meant it affectionately) rather than making a one-word judgement on your DD's behaviour.

When you first started making small talk with your school friends, doubtless you talked about school stuff, and when you first started talking to your work friends, your small talk was work stuff. Only talking to new mum friends about mum stuff is the currency of social exchange.

I also think it's possible to see the good (and to admire) people without insisting they have all your interests. DH and I are very into our news / politics; my closest mum friend has pretty much zero interest in any of that and so we don't talk about it. But finding common ground on their and your terms is rewarding, rather than ruling people out because they're not a perfect fit.

I thought for a long time there was something wrong with me, SAHM, toddler group pro, committee member for anything that required a comittee or biscuit duty yet, not one person I could really chill out with, not one person who had kids the same age but actually remembered something of their pre-child self.

Until last year.

My eldest is 8. It went like this..... I made a 'not inappropriate but not school mum' joke, the lady next to me guffawed, we had a chat... we went for coffee that turned into lunch. We became firm friends.

She wasn't what I was looking for, she has a very different life from me (I the SAH jam making M, she the corporate full time queen) but we met as people without assumption or pigeon hole.

We did dinner, we invited other aquaintances, house party type thing with Christmas as an excuse. Out of those 20 (who were mostly mad) we're left with 4, all different. We now have dinner/wine/giggles at each other's house once a month. So really, I'm doing well but you have to be open to it, and grasp any opportunity without being 'grasping' and desperate.

We don't chat in the schoolyard either, pffffft.. the schoolyard is a crazy place (and I say that as a 'tigger type' PTA member who's a PITA to most people). We'd never have picked each other in a line up either.

yadahyadah I hope you find some equally 'comfy' people, but 4 friends in 8 years of motherhood sounds lame but is actually rather good going! Wine DOES help though, so even if the thought of actually going out with these freaks puts you off, chances are they feel the same way.

On and out of 12 people on my anti-natal group, 11.5 were completely off their rockers.... it does happen.

campaspe. Goddamit I will keep buggering on and on and on. And I hope you keep buggering on too.

And buggers, we will ignite all the bugger haters. The Bugger Boos, if you will.

PS: ta for that PenguinPatter - it rocks

RobotinDisguise I'm not looking for mirrors of myself. Jesus, that would be truly terrifying. And I have valiantly (I think) tried to adopt your take on bossy woman's behaviour. My DH is a fantastically grounded individual who is often called upon to call me on my shit regarding random aeration about things, people, furniture, bread, etc. And the point is, when he was on paternity leave with our 3rd and was doing the nursery run, he came home spitting nails about bossy woman's stream of thoughtless, offensive nonsense. And the man is a saint. Mostly.

But yes, the point you're making is that in general, we should be more forgiving of people's random comments - they are not necessarily meant as we choose to take them. Agreed. I should and I try to, But sometimes the consistency of the crap in their comments adds up to a lot of shit that gets hard to ignore ignite.

God, aldiwhore, that's it, isn't it? Just the need to be able to be comfy with someone.

I shall await the random comment that sparks an interest.

Like Aldiwhore, I bonded with someone from a baby group over an inappropriate joke. It's a very good indicator.
Out of 12 people, she was the only one. Them's the odds, I feel.

Well, for all that, you were there and I wasn't, and she obviously has form then.

Aldiwhore, when you say 11.5 people out of the 12 were off their rockers, I'm wondering if you were the person who was 0.5 mad?

Yes I was robotindisguise yes I was. But I'm already friends with myself so didn't require any bonding.

Yes bobbly i think we would have laughed a lot! Lol x

During my quest to find even one local mum friend (do have local friends but as the first of our group to replicate, was still kind of isolated), I did the "try really hard with people who may be totally different to yourself" thing, I went out for coffee with one woman who turned out to be an evangelical Christian.

So that was a non-starter, because although in theory I was willing to be more open-minded, in reality I would have never been able to make an unguarded comment, joke etc (she also told me that "friends were just trouble and she didn't need any" and hadn't left the house for a week. And hey, she never called me back either!

Seriously try mumsnet meet-ups, (sorry to keep banging on!) because when you think how many women are on here, and despite all the bickering and whatnot, the common characteristics of Mumsnet Woman seem generally to be Intelligent and Funny as well as a general sense of *** (word escapes me due to NO sleep), some of them must live where you live, maybe 5 would be vaguely on your wavelength and at least one could become a friend.

That is my scientific data analysis of the situation. goes to lie down on floor

Irreverent that was the word. Not "arsehole" as the computer seems to have be-symboled it.

I don't find it hard to believe your NCT group weren't people you could gel with, mine were actively horrid although I was so desperate for friends, I carried on going to the meets/drinks for a year after the birth until I realised (and my husband told me) I didn't actually have to hang out with people who didn't like me very much and make sarcastic remarks and rolled their eyes when I spoke. It was like school only worse.

Since then, I make friends with nice genuine people, not hundreds, but there are enough out there. I don't think they have to be other mums, though, I made a very good friend a few years ago at work and we still speak a lot now, she's not done the marriage and baby thing yet, but we have a lot of fun conversations and just find each other funny. I'd rather be friends with her than force a friendship with another mum if it's not happening. Single/childless friends are also great as logistically it's not that hard to see each other as when two mums very attached to their families try to get together (old friends are the worst for this, I find). In other words, be open to friendships and don't box people in, you are not looking for a clone anyway.

Yahda didn't happen for me until I got into a book group. And out of those 8ish people, one is a true friend.
And that was after a good 6-7 years of being a mother and not connecting with anyone at school.
I have never given up work though, so that has kept me sane with some colleagues who are friends. (Not SAHM-bashing not SAHM-bashing, not SAHM-bashing - it keeps ME sane because of how I am.)

Thanks carlywurly!

I like your story aldiwhore. It reminds me of how I became freindly with a woman from a local toddler group (where we used to live).
She asked if I wanted to have more children and I said that I would have to find someone to have sex with me first. I think we were at a two year olds party and I said it quite loudly by accident, but this woman laughed instead of running away from me, so I thought "a-ha!"

Why do you say the playground is a crazy place Aldiwhore?

Was looking round a grammar school the other day, and a woman passed me in the corridor and glared. I suddenly remembered I knew her from a toddler group where she'd decided my DC and I were below par and was spectacularly bitchy. She looked horrified that I might be considering applying to a school she had chosen for her mini Adonis.

It's funny, but it's also baffling. My DC are polite, friendly, bit lively as most boys are, but get shed loads of compliments from strangers for being cute and courteous. And I always smile, help make the coffees, ask after others before boring on about us, but still there's a chilliness to everyday exchanges that I never encountered before. Makes me wonder if I'm weird, but living in London, was surrounded by enough fellow freaks to have a warm, friendly herd of them at my disposal and never realised how freakish I was until we moved to semi-rural Daily Mail paradise.

I still recall toddler groups where a set of friends sat and barked loudly about their DCs tucking into fresh tuna etc in a stunning non-stop, week in, week out display of oneupmanship and despite my making eye contact, smiling, sitting there like a fool, even laughing if they made a dry joke, not one of them ever asked who i was, or made eye contact long enough for me to introduce myself. There's a distinct difference between someone who expects others to make the first warm overtures of friendship, and being given a strong, primal signal to stay away, you're not welcome. My guess is that the OP has experienced this and after a while it does make you bitter and prickly.

I've always loved the company of other women, always been quite in need of strong female friendships. They are vitally important. I never understood women who claim to prefer to hang out with men, because women are so two faced and bitchy. But I understand them since having kids.