to have imagined that 5 years after the birth of first child, I'd have found a good hang out buddy in the land of local motherhood?

[yadahyadah]

Christ, school has started and with it the pick-up/drop-off hell of skirting round the mums whose parenting I happen to not agree with but don't make a deal out of it, but who in turn call my self assured daughter 'bossy' in an "only jokin, just havin a laff" way that makes me wish for a sniper unit as my backup.

I have friends from school (only 1, I'm no prom freak) a couple from university and many from working life (but not too many - I'm not flesh-pressing networker from hell) but in the land of motherhood I have been sadly dismayed at the lack of quality my kind of womanhood out here.

And the NCT brigade just DID MY HEAD IN.

I know I know the pond is huge and there is no funneling system to rely on. But jeez, you'd imagine there'd be someone... Anyone else out there finding it a wilderness?

I'll be serious now. I don't think you are giving yourself a chance to get to know people. Don't pre-judge. Sometimes people waffle on when they meet new people and say daft things (like zen, kung foo and dali llama for example) that you may find irritating. The more you get to know some people, the more they relax and you get to know the real them. Give it a go. Your task is to try very hard next week and then report back next Friday. Now off you go yadahyadah and practice your niceties ;)

ps if enough people tell you your 'assertive' daughter is bossy you might take a hint from that dude.

AitchTwoOh - I'm not sure being discerning is the same as being someone who doesn't like people but I am sorry about your heartburn.

oh flipping heck, Carpwidow, you had to throw down the gauntlet. I'm just going to skirt around them all and comb my hair all emo for the week.

I?ll be honest. I did find it a wilderness at first, me being a big career girl and all and suddenly dumped in the land of motherhood. Then I took my head out of my arse and life got a lot easier.

I think you have to give people a bit more than 3 minutes, and I don?t think you can be too discerning at the school gate/playground. People are there to collect DC?s or in the case of the play ground get the DC?s out of the house because they are about to tear the place appart play with DC?s. These are quite likely to be individuals who are not able to meet your exacting standards on top form at all times.

you're not discerning, you just hate yourself and are frightened in case everyone else will notice.

So how did you get on down the park today yadahyadah ?

i am with you i tend to not be able to stand other mothers.... if i meet them in a mother context. i had my children quite young so my friends only just started having theirs now so i have been pretty much in a child/mother friend wilderness. i am now pregnant again an have started to beg my non child friends to get knocked up so i am not doing it all alone again.

though thinking about it i was 18 when i did nct and they were all 30 odd so we really didnt have all that much in common not surprising we didnt bond for life.

Obviously is true that you have to give new people a chance, not that many people are great at meeting new people malarkey....

But, yeah, sometimes the fact that you both have children is not enough to make it worthwhile, sometimes you just want to be able to hang out with someone you might actually be friends with if you didn't both have children. And then hang out with them with your children, or without.

You will still end up talking 90% of the time about kids etc but with someone who shares your sense of humour/cultural references etc.

Why don't you try the mumsnet meet-ups talk board - I think it took me a few tries and in the end I just made a desperate plea for people with small children and an unfortunate sense of humour etc. I met a few really nice people who I am always happy to bump into and chat to in the street (and would happily meet up with again), and crucially, one actual friend, who I would like even "in real life".

Even just having one good "mum friend" (sorry, boak) will make such a difference to you, and then you will realise they are out there and just be open-minded. A bit, anyway.

Sorry, long post, just wanted to help as was in same boat and it sucks arse.

Your op is weirdly phrased. Most people don't assume that if you have more than one friend from school you're a prom freak, or that if you have a couple of friends from work you're a flesh-pressing whatsit. Possibly in the flesh, geddit, this negative attitude comes across from you and turns away people who might otherwise have been open to friendship. Why do you feel defensive about having friends?

The older I get the more interesting I find other people, even if on the surface it might seem we have little in common.

Do you think the problem might stem from you, rather than from the dullness or thickness or lack of quality of the womanhood in your postcode, and that it might therefore be in your power to address it?

I have also learned not to dismiss other women just because they are other mothers. In the early years of motherhood I dreaded having only "mum friends" or having no life outside motherhood and so on, and avoided mothers for that reason. Crazy! Everyone's just a human being.

I think if you haven't made a friend in the last five years, the problem may lie with you, not other people.
Yes it is boring going to toddler groups, parks and playgrounds, but I met my closest friends that way. But then I will talk to anyone.
Mothers are not all empty headed uber competitive harpies, and you seem to have dismissed 29 mothers in your child's class . Surely there is one you could bear to have a coffee or glass of wine with?

I do a little bit, my best friends are younger and childless. I had one good mum friend, but she moved abroad. I have a few other mum friends but we're not that close and I can't see us getting any closer. I doubt I'll become great friends with any of the school lot either, just on first impressions.

I think the negativity problem just gets exacerbated by the feeling of isolation - you feel like a freak. You just need to make an effort and try not to judge people too harshly for as Plato said "be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."

BTW I got that off Mumsnet, not pretending that I spend a lot of time reading Plato.

I tend to agree with MrsRobertDuvall, if you haven't found someone to be friends with in 5 years, it must be you.

If everybody irritates you, do you think you are giving them much of a chance?

My eldest is 7 and I STILL don't have a friend in babyland.

Does get me down quite a bit at times.

Could you sketch out for us what kind of woman you are looking for to make friends with?

One of us here might be a match and then we could organise a play date or something.

I was just sitting feeding my 6 month old baby thinking similar things when I stumbled upon this thread.

I was even thinking of starting a baby group for people who don't like baby groups.

I'm not sure if its my age. In day to day life and all these bloody baby groups I'm yet to meet someone whose even close to my age. Apparantly 23 were I live is just not an age people get pregnant around.

Not saying age is most important factor but I'm at a different stage in my life to a lot of people at the NCT.

Mmmmm, a move to a new area where I knew no-one coincided with the birth of my first child.

I threw myself, THREW myself at all kinds of people, was totally indiscriminate and acceptaed all invitations that came my way.

4 1/2 years down the line I have about five good friends, about a further 12 I'd phone up for coffe/drinks/children's outings, a wide circle of acquaintances I could have a good chat with if I bumped into them & only a few people I'd cross the road to avoid. Not all of them have children the same age as mine, in fact, my best frind of the lot is a woman 20 years older than me with grown-up children.

Cast your net wide I say.

Mind you, I have no shame.

I think you sound like a nightmare. I'd go out my way to avoid you and your picky, over analytical, pre-judgemental ways. If after 5 years you still haven't found any friends that pass your ridiculously high entrance criteria, then the problem is YOU not other people. You seem quite rude in fact, so yes, YABU.

I'm a bit worried with all these people saying "if you haven't found a friend in five years the problem is YOU".

Maybe the case with the OP, I don't know - but it's not making me feel any better! My eldest is six.

I am shy in real life, I couldn't do what spiderslegs did above, as the idea of throwing myself at people makes me want to run away and hide under the duvet. I think I struggled as I went back to work after maternity leave - a lot of the "mum" socialising around here seems to rely on baby groups / classes etc. which take place during work hours - and it's also hard to develop school gate friendships if you rarely appear at the gates!

Anyway, I'm off out now, with my friends.

Ta ta.

i couldnt think of anythingworse than to buddy up with someone just because they had a kid too

i avoid other mothers at all cost, they talk to much about kids