To not believe that 40% of parents want to bring back the cane?

[Voidka]

Really?

Throughout my whole school-life corporal punishment was allowed in school. I had the slipper myself (a plimsoll) and also a tap on the bum with a yardstick. The tap was worse because it was from a teacher I'd respected and was for getting a spelling wrong. It was inappropriate. I can't even remember why I got the slipper so it obviously didn't do much good.

There is a huge issue with discipline in schools but bringing back corporal punishment won't change that.

Imo, I think that actually hitting a child with a cane would be very wrong, however, if say, it was to sit in the headmasters/mistresses office in full site of any pupil to walk past it so be it. I also think wooden ruler slapping on tables would put the craps into a child too, and I think every school should have at least 1 professor snape type teacher. But to actually strike a child with said implements is wrong. Also there are the cases of cared for kids and sn kids too, and seeing as they are generally in mainstream schools and not in special schools, this could have a definate impact on those children. the daily mail are full of crap though !!

My gran still remembers clearly at 80 years old the fear she felt as a child at the punishments dished out at her school by the nuns and the priests. She isn't of the generation prone to swearing but even she has a few choice words at the treatment that was given out.

It is interesting, I was talking this through with a few teacher friends yesterday hence my joining the thread. Reassuringly, each was vehemently opposed and would categorically never cane a child...to the point that like me, they would rescind their professional memberships and leave the profession in disgust were it to happen. (None believe it will, by the by.) Now, these are all passionate, well educated, successful, high achieving teachers of different ages...exactly what Cameron has stated he wants from the teaching profession.

This got me thinking...if we as a society are vehemently against violence against children (it is viewed as the lowest of the low) and we are against smacking (the vitriol seen on AIBU thread on the subject bears this out) why are we saying it is ok for teachers to do it? And what woud that say about the teachers who were prepared to do it, or those joining the profession knowing it would be done? In any other walk of life we would look very askance at anyone who hit children with an implement or said that they would be prepared to...yet somehow some people are actually for this? I don't get it.

Someone said on here that all of us against caning haven't provided any answers, well some of us have but in any case I don't think knee jerk solutions are effective or smart. Nor do I believe that reverting to a previously failed system such as corporal punishment is going to be effective. And I do believe that previous generations who indulged in this form of discipline were cruel and wrong. If I found out my grandfather had beat my father I would condemn my grandfather just as harshly. It was banned for very good reasons. And banned it should stay.

no, i dont think corporal punishment should be brought back in schools. i do however think that the justice system should be made to be more sympathetic towards the victim, and harsher on the criminal. i dont think that prisoners should be given gourmet food, tv and computers in their cells and all the other 'luxuries' that they receive, while many of those on the outside (including their victims) have less than they do. i think that prisons should once again be made into a thing to fear, and to avoid at all costs. i also think that for more minor crimes (burglary, vandalism, theft etc) the criminal should be made to repay their victims in some way.
for example, with the recent rioting, i think that the criminals should be made to participate in the re-building and cleaning up of things that they have destroyed, furthermore, i believe that people who commit crimes against any community should be made to help that community as punishment, visibly and to endure the humiliation of their peers seeing them in that role, cleaning streets, scrubbing graffiti, rebuilding and restoring damaged property.
i also think that the same should be done in schools, bullies should be made to help their victims, in front of their peers and to be taught humility and compassion.

If people claim to be in favour of bringing back caning personally I think it's just because they don't think things through.

It's just "things were better in the old days ...."

Really puts me off the tories (not that I was ever a fan) that these things bubble to the surface when they're in power ....

Ah but apparently it is only the parents of badly behaved children that are against it.

surely smacking is practically illegal these days? how could caning possibly be re-introduced on that basis?

"you may not chastise your child with your hand, but it will improve school discipline if a teacher is allowed to hit your child with a stick"

There seems to be an underlying inference in many of the posts above that caning is a punishment for boys.

Can those who support the bringing back of caning please confirm that they are happy for girls (in particular their daughters) to be caned?

'Really puts me off the tories (not that I was ever a fan) that these things bubble to the surface when they're in power ....'

Ain't that the truth. Pandering is what it is, appealing to the sort of Conservative voter who thinks you can achieve profound change for the cost of a ruler.

Another part of the survey revealed:

Nine in ten (91 per cent) said they were concerned that teachers have become more fearful of their pupils

If teachers in the secondary sector are so sure their grasp of discipline is so good, their belief certainly is not shared by the parents.

If I were afraid of the pupils I can't see how a cane would help.

How is it acceptable to inflict physical punishment that leaves scars on a child but doing this to an adult would be actual bodily harm and punishable in a court of law?!

I went to a school where the cane was used and 2 girls in my dormitory were caned. It left massive deep welts in their bottoms that took ages to recover from. If someone whipped the teacher that would be illegal. How is it right that this could be done to a child? No logic.

Is there any evidence that caning was in any way effective in any case? It seems to be one of those things, like hanging, that people seem to think must work, regardless of whether there is any proof that it makes any positive difference at all. It seems to me that this is just another example of knee jerk Golden Ageism.

I suspect it appeals partly because it is a great deal cheaper (and involved zero thought clearly) than the sort of interventions that might actually bring about some behavioural change. How many special referral units are left now? Or specialist schools for children with behavioural difficulties? Both very expensive (highly trained teachers, small teacher to pupil ratios etc) but much more likely to result in children who get through the educational system and are able to function productively (and even happily) afterward.

I teach and while I do not agree with the cane, one of the (few) things that I am pleased that the Tories are proposing is to put power back into the teacher's hands.
Parental support is vital in this process. In my last job a mum came in saying that her dd said I was picking her. to which I replied "Not at all. I simply tell her off when she misbehaves and disrupts the class; which is fairly regularly". Parents need to be firm too.
This whole reluctance to discipline or tick soundly off one's own offspring exasperates me. I tell dd off if she misbehaves, I don't think she's above abmonishment and I do not think I will scar her for life if I give her a bollocking if she pushes the boundaries. (I never smack but I do shout which is not ideal but quite human imo.)
I do think in some respects the dragon mother is right; we are so concerned with the psyches of the children that we are paralysed into letting them do whatever they want which is just as damaging imo. Kids NEED boundaries

teachers'

I do not agree with corporal punsihment at all but a firm hand is needed; none of this namby pamby parenting imo.

picking on her

I am not convinced that it is the gently parented children with the softly spoken parents who go on to cause most havoc in school. From a purely personal anecdotal pov I would suggest that a fair few of the really difficult youngsters come from households where shouting and swearing and smacking are the order of the day.

Pendeen:

'Nine in ten (91 per cent) said they were concerned that teachers have become more fearful of their pupils

If teachers in the secondary sector are so sure their grasp of discipline is so good, their belief certainly is not shared by the parents.'

Well, (1) large sectors of the media portray this Blackboard Jungle bollocks because it suits their own agenda.

Also, (2) my eldest is 7, & when I ask him what happened at school today, if there's been any sort of contretemps he's likely to say 'Sarah spat at Mrs Smith!' because that's headline news in his little world.

If nothing so shocking occurred, I get 'Oh...nothing...what's for tea?' rather than 'We had a perfectly unremarkable & productive day, thank you, mother'.

& (3) we tend to remember our own teachers as scary because we were young & relatively powerless when we interacted with them, whereas our dc's teachers are either our peers, or mere slips of things barely out of their teens .

My dad used to tell me he'd never have DARED backchat his teachers the way I did. Now he's approaching his 70s & I'm 40 & a parent of school-age children myself, he's admitted that HIS dad used to tell him the exact same thing...

haven't read whole thread but we had the 'belt' at school rather than cane. For those who said that their children wouldn't do anything to deserve it - we had teachers who used to line up the whole class and belt them just to make a point and make sure they didn't leave anyone out.

I was only belted once (in front of everyone) when I was 10 or 11 for passing a note in class - my biggest fear was the humiliation of crying in front of the class which luckily I didn't.

I have thought and thought about this and my unruly child would probably be really good after the cane.

There, you have one parent who actually advocates it. In fact my husband & I were talking about it and both of us agreed that if he got caned, he would be punished at home too. a) for getting in any situation that involved it and b) for getting caught out.

Obviously we were talking hypothetically, but we both agree that corporal punishment would make pupils think again before carrying out something awful. I do think that that lack of real discipline from parents these days is breeding awful monsters.

If lack of discipline from parents is the problem why do you think that being physically punished at school is going to help? Schools need to have appropriate discipline policies (and use them effectively) sure, but harming children shouldn't be a part of that. Our school is currently investigating a restorative justice approach (we live in Canada and it's an approach that the First Nations use) it will be interesting to see how that works out, especially as our son is likely at some point to be involved (he is still not great on thinking about the consequences of his actions, so an approach based on recognising and redressing the consequences of misdeeds might really help him)>

Mrs Crafty Luckily you say "obviously we are talking hypothetically"
Children do not behave better when they are hit IMHO