To not believe that 40% of parents want to bring back the cane?

[Voidka]

Really?

Coffeeaddict is right about the control & restraint training, btw.

Dh teaches it (his company work with adults with complex needs).

His advice is: If you don't want an expectation in your contract that you will use C&R, & the contigent risk of being sued for getting it wrong - DO NOT let anyone train you in it.

I can believe that amount of parents think that caning should be returned. When you see the behaviour and rudeness of some teenagers it would be no bad thing.

How about if the behaviour and rudeness of some teenagers is linked in some way with their parents holding the opinion that physical violence is a good idea, and should be used more widely ?

Well then , thats what they know so i wouldn even come as a surprise !

How can you possibly be a loving parent and hold these views?

Lots have said that or similar things, but if you believe it's as simple as that then you believe that all of our parents were monsters. One generation back even if some parents didn't approve of smacking and caning they were okay with others doing it. We're not talking about ancient times.

Many have said things like "This is the ultimate LAZY answer to a complex problem." or "Can't we be more imaginative than that?" but in my skimming of the posts since I don't see them coming up with alternatives.

Does anyone have a solution other than standing by wringing your hands while a minority of kids assault your children and wreck lessons to the point that your children lose out on a chance of an education.

Yes, onagar. I have lots.

The thing is, each child's needs are different- therefore the solution in each case will be different.

There is a question to be raised about whether inclusion is always appropriate and whether funding is in place to adequately support children with behavioural difficulties in school before they get to the stage where they are assaulting other children, but it is important to remember that this is not the norm in schools today. It happens, it is often handled badly, poor decisions are made; but violence in schools is not the norm.

It is therefore a little premature to ask for solutions to a problem which has been grossly exaggerated.

Yes, remove the unruly children from the classroom effectively.

"some children find it easy to behave, some find it difficult but try, and some just don't care. I think there is little we can do as adults to move a child from one category to another."

I disagree with this. There is plenty we can do. Whether we can do it within the confines of the school structure as it stands is another question.

wise words tethersend

As a teacher I have no wish to cane children or to have my own kids caned. However, I would like someone to give me some effective aids to discipline as the ones I have at present simply don't work for some pupils. I would also like to see the tools we do have used properly and staff backed up when they attempt to use them. A child was expelled from our school several years ago when he was found to have drugs in his school bag. All the staff totally agreed with the Head's decision to expel. The parents took the case to appeal and won, forcing us to reinstate the boy who was then in Y8. He then felt himself to be untouchable and became even more difficult than previously.

tethersend I was just chatting to a retired head teacher friend about this yesterday. The inclusion policy was reported as not hugely effective about three years ago and yet no more seems to have been said. It was found to be inadequate for many additional needs children, lack of funds/resources of course, and the children with behavioural problems were taking up too much class time in efforts to contain the disruption. I think it was never set that all additional needs pupils should go mainstream, yet the take up has been massive. Badly planned and underfunded.

Friend says it was a good idea in principle but was done on the cheap. She could barely cope with the workload it gave her and felt her non special needs pupils (sorry, don't remember the term used) were skimming by. Even with a teaching assistant, she felt prepping work and showing the TA what to do was just another drain on her time. She was just another adult body who heard reading, it was like fighting fires every day.

I thought the teaching unions would have had more to say on this really, unless I missed it.

DrSeuss I hear that's a common problem. Our school are desperate to be free of a very unsatisfactory supply teacher and yet the Local Authority seem to have cast iron manacles in place to prevent this.

Who makes these rules?

is, not are

perfumedlife It is the other way round, surely? Surely it is schools that hire and fire teachers, not councils. Schools, even those ostensibly under 'local authority control' have a huge degree of autonomy now.

OP I was bemused by the survey figures, too, especially as the UK will never be allowed, nor allow itself, to re-introduce corporal punishment. Indeed the UK forced its crown dependancies such as the Isle of Man to ban it (rightly, in my personal view) so it is hardly likely to reconsider that which it cannot change.

not in Glasgow LineRunner, the LA provide the supply staff and the school seem to have very little say in it. I know they are trying hard to get parental support to back their case and it's forthcoming. Takes so long though.

I wasn't bemused by the figures-not only is 'broken feral youth' a widespread mantra at the moment, but basically everyone thinks it will be other people. If you phrased the question to work out what conditions parents would attach to seeing DCs coming home with scarred and bleeding bodies, I imagine the percentage approving any caning likely to be implemented would be very small.

And it is a daft idea, and one which does very little for discipline. I worked in a school abroad with caning and it's actually a disciplinary nightmare because it becomes the only resort very quickly: kids that I would fully expect in this country to be silenced or chastened with a glare, brusque word or withdrawal of various privileges were uninfluenceable unless they were being caned...

Absolutely ridiculous! Nobody respects someone who uses violence against them, especially not with a weapon. Caning is assault however you choose to dress it up.

Maryz you are so right with your post. I think girls can generally sit still for a lot longer than boys.

IMHO violence can never be justified as a solution to the problems posed by children failing to do as they are told.

Even those who adocate bringing back corporal punishment in schools must concede that it's way too late for that now. The time for all that has passed and we live in a different society these days. It's as outmoded an idea as sending children up chimneys.

If these people genuinely believe that the sort of children who would end up being regularly caned would just take it, they must be either mad or stupid.

Bring it back and see the numbers of assaults on teachers rise exponentially.

I'm amazed anyone could agree.

Yeah, cause trying to reduce violence by teaching young people that adults use violence and that is the done thing is really going to work.

As a teacher in a really rough school I had no desire to rule by fear thanks.

Oh, and as a teacher I would categorically not, ever cane a pupil or use any form of violence. I would not work in a school that did, nor would I send my child to one. I would also remove my child from the State system were it to become allowed.

If we disallow violence in the home, and talk of rough homes creating rough children how is it then logical to use violence in schools? Why is the effect any different? We are a civilised society in theory, and I say bollocks to it.

I am against it but I am also against the idea that 'it is my place to discipline my child ,not the school's'.When children are in school the school is in loco parentis and it is a school's duty to enforce discipline.There have to be sanctions that will matter ;and when a child can go home, and the parent automatically takes up cudgels against the school ,then that is not supporting the child -it is letting them down and opening the door to anarchy.

I don't get it.

It is widely accepted that a major contributor to the discipline problem is that parents do not support the punishments doled out by the teachers and that children know this. Is there any reason whatsoever to believe that those same parents will suddenly become supportive of the teacher if he canes their child instead?

Another major factor in discipline breakdown is undiagnosed (or unsupported) SN/SEN. Does anyone imagine that children with SEN will suddenly become compliant if they are caned?

There is a good case for believing that a large proportion of the out-of-control children are the ones who already have an element of violence in their lives (abusive parents, troubled neighbourhood, or simply parents that depend very heavily on corporal punishment). Is there any reason to believe that witnessing more violence than they already do is suddenly going to effect a magic cure?