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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not believe that 40% of parents want to bring back the cane?

371 replies

Voidka · 16/09/2011 11:53

Really?

OP posts:
enjolraslove · 16/09/2011 23:15

sorry maypole 1 but really your posts sound like you have very little compassion?
Maryz's kid probably finds school hard enough to deal with without such judgement. i'm not saying clicking isn't annoying -(and your 'no spring' suggestion is a good one, - wish I had thought of it for some of my pupils - I am going to steal it - sorry!) but really isn't the lesson we should be teachign our kids one of tolerance?
i had my first 'embarrassing toddler speech' moment today in sainsburys on the way home. I am carrying dd (2 years) round while we pick up emergency -wine- (food) and she points and says 'oh look'. man in a wheelchair. i said to him 'oh sorry - she is young all things are new'. he
laughed and said don't worry. but seriously in another couple of years I would hope I had taught her enough to be tolerant/ignore things like wheelchairs/ticks/repetitive actions.

maypole1 · 16/09/2011 23:22

Sorry but like I said my dd was bullied but the children were disruptive in class I am not suggesting that myraz child is a bully

Other children may have issues but what do others do when their children can't learn because one child has issues

30 children is a lot to handle when you have one or two who are constantly disrupting the class spots or no spots

And I did say I wasn't having a go and make helpful suggestions

Dragonwoman · 16/09/2011 23:27

They still had physical punishment when I was at primary school. I've been hit with a ruler & threatened with the cane. Didn't really bother me - I don't think it's much of a deterrent. I did hate being shouted at however - that was worse.

Those people advocating the return of the cane - do they really think the 'tough' kids will be afraid of the cane? They would laugh in your face. Certainly at my secondary school it wasn't unknown for boys who were hit by a teacher to return the pleasure. It would only be effective against those who are fairly meek anyway.

enjolraslove · 16/09/2011 23:36

I am really sorry for your dd maypole. bullying is hideous. i guess my argument would be bullies don't stop because they are caned. actually the only way to stop it is to do 'restorative justice' - it sounds silly but it is incredibly effective. if that doesn't work you need parents. if parents don't work you have to remove the situation (i.e. remove the child from the class/year) if that doesn't work the bully has to be removed from the school.
I do think Dragonwoman's post should be in DM tomorrow (it won't be!). If it was a time when teachers could hit kids it was 20 years ago. in 8 years 1 child has hit a teacher (a couple more have because said teacher got in middle of fight (me included) - the horror of it was all over their face (and of the spectators) the moment it happened. such sorriness and such shame (I really can't think of a better word) on the faces of the kids who saw it), the kid who did it on purpose was permanently excluded.

Maryz · 16/09/2011 23:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LadyBeagleEyes · 16/09/2011 23:57

I hated my primary school, I was seven years old when I got the belt.
I never even saw it coming, I was just replying to another child and got called up for talking in class.
I'm 55 now so this was the norm then, my teacher was very strap happy-yes, I'm talking about you Miss Ross - and the head was even worse.
My memories of primary school is one of fear.
My ds went to a tiny primary school, with a gentle but firm teacher.
Thank god things have changed.

mathanxiety · 17/09/2011 00:50

Maypole, what's the difference between a grown man hitting a child and a child hitting another child?
What's the difference between a grown man getting off on some level from the infliction of violence on a child and a child doing the same thing?

Why can't children learn when one or two children are being disruptive? And imo, clicking a pen may be annoying but it is not disruptive -- I have seen 'disruptive' at the secondary school I attended. Some classes had over half the children not even open books and never stop talking, some children turned up to school hung over, some decided that throwing furniture, books and supplies was the way to behave in class and kicking in lockers was fun after school before the building was cleared. A fistfight once broke out in an art class I was in. A potato was shoved into the tailpipe of an English teacher's car.

I spent my first year of secondary in grotty prefabs where there wasn't room to swing a cat. Five of the students who shared my prefab with me in that first year of secondary school went on to university; four went to prison, and that was from just one of the six prefabs where we worked. The other prefabs produced similar numbers. The rest who fell somewhere between prison and university are productive members of society.

There comes a point where you have to expect your children to put their ears back and do what they are supposed to do whether the teacher is paying attention to them or not. No school is ever going to be perfect, and there is no workplace where you are going to encounter a whole fleet of colleagues who are all pulling their weight, have no annoying tics, etc.

Voidka · 17/09/2011 08:47

I do wonder about your logic maypole - you think your DD's bullies should be punished by an older bully (teacher) and that will teach them a lesson?

I am sorry your DD was bullied, but it just wont work. Also teaching your DD that revenge is something that should be sought is not a good idea.

OP posts:
coffeeaddict · 17/09/2011 09:02

Havent had time to read whole thread but wanted to comment on training teachers to restrain pupils safely (mentioned earlier). My friend is a teacher and went on a course about this. the tutor said that these days it is actually in the teacher's favour NOT to be trained.
The reason? In the heat of the moment you are likely to forget the exact protocol and just do your best. If you have been 'trained' and get it wrong, you are more likely to be sued. If you haven't been trained you have more 'excuse' and may be treated more leniently.
It's the just the way these days... :(

TeddyBare · 17/09/2011 09:05

I would expect to see a massive increase in home schoolers and private school attendance if caning was reintroduced. There is no way I would send my dc to a school where anyone would be allowed to injure anyone else. It doesn't make for a good atmosphere and I don't think it teaches dc to resolve conflicts well. I also think it's pretty bad for teachers. Who wants their pupils to be afraid of them? Good teachers get respect from being good teachers. Allowing bad teachers to injure dc does not make the teacher any better. I know classroom issues are not entirely caused by bad teachers, but I think even if only a few are the it would be dangerous to give those teachers a cane. I think most sane parents would agree with me and I don't believe the 40%.

exoticfruits · 17/09/2011 09:18

I really shouldn't worry-it won't happen.

meltedchocolate · 17/09/2011 10:16

It could never be managed or controlled. Though I wouldn't mind it being in schools to be a legend thing (what?! X's friend's cousin ACTUALLY got the... Cane? Gulp) but that is not realistic so I am against it for that reason.

I was in school only 5 years ago and we all knew that the teachers couldn't do anything and that we could do what we wanted pretty much and I am sorry to say I abused that. There was no deterrent. They should have had us running round the football pitch, doing pressups and made it like the army.

tooshorttonotice · 17/09/2011 10:22

So as a kid does something wrong you commit actual bodily harm on him. No doubt you also teach that two wrongs don't make a right?

cory · 17/09/2011 10:25

From what I have seen myself and heard from older teaching relatives, bullying was no less prevalent in the days of the cane, in fact rather more so; it was just that people didn't see there was anything to make a fuss about. Why complain about being beaten up by your friends when you see people beaten by the teacher every day? Violence was a far more accepted part of the school day, not seen as a problem.

JLK2 · 17/09/2011 10:28

We should be removing all violence and aggression out of childrens lives.
This will never happen.

Tyr · 17/09/2011 10:41

It seems to me that a lot of time and energy has been expended in challenging a spurious poll in support of violence against children.
Perhaps a simple "fuck off and die" would have been more apt.

Namechangeragain · 17/09/2011 10:54

Caning will never be bought back. So no need to debate.

jugglingwiththreeshoes · 17/09/2011 11:13

Yeh, hopefully the same with hanging namechanger however much the plebs DailyMail think it's such a great idea !

maypole1 · 17/09/2011 11:57

Maryz please ready my post in full i did make a point of saying I didn't think our child is a bully

But you say he wasn't anyone not sure about that if the class are trying to work and one person is constantly clicking their pen on and of for ages then it will be disturbing

I understand that he is on medication but the others in his class should still be allowed to learn in peace I encourage my dd to work hard weather the teacher is nice or not after all he is not working hard for gcse for their benefit and won't be spiting them he he mucks about

Also if my son was constantly being punished I would encourage him to do as he was told then it be comes a non issue

SoupDragon · 17/09/2011 12:03

Whilst I don't believe that caning should be brought back, I do think that they need to crack down on behaviour and discipline in school.

ReadRideABikeSwim · 17/09/2011 12:12

A lot of the children relevant to the debate on caning will be displaying violent abusive and certainly anti social behaviour.

OpinionatedMum · 17/09/2011 12:37

So where is caning most prevalent in the UK today?

S@M clubs and the bedrooms of couples into s@m. That's where.

My Mum still remembers a teacher who enjoyed smacking young boys.

If a teacher caned my kid, legal or not, I would beat them to within an inch of their fucking life.

Maryz · 17/09/2011 12:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SoupDragon · 17/09/2011 12:48

"I think a debate on what sanctions could be applied might be useful, SoupDragon. I suspect the reason there isn't one is that no-one knows the answer. "

I agree completely. Take detention... What do you do if the child doesn't turn up? Suspend them? That, presumably, gives them what they want: time off school and some kind of badge of honour.

If a child is basically well behaved, the threat of any kind of punishment works. If they aren't, well, they don't care. Unless, as you say, it is backed up with home discipline and parents who care.

giraffesCantChaChaCha · 17/09/2011 12:50

Such an idiotic article, oh yes I am allowed to cane you but not touch you gently to put suncream on you Hmm I don;t know why they don;t spend their time discussing some realistic options.

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