Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to consider taking my DD out of a perfectly good school to HE?

336 replies

FigsAndWine · 13/09/2011 22:09

I am considering taking my 8 year old DD out of school and home educating. My reasons and reservations are detailed here

I've read a bit about HE and I'm feeling more and more that I want to do this. The two people whom I thought would be really negative about this (my best friend and my DM) have been very positive about it and think it would benefit DD. My DP thinks I'm a bit nuts (but then he does anyway... Grin ) but will support my decision. My exDP (DD's dad) is also in a good postion to HE, as he is self employed and therefore flexible with his time, and is very involved with DD.

The school DD is at is a good one. It is over-subscribed, good with outstanding features according to ofsted. I just think that DD would thrive more out of a school environment. It will be a squeeze financially to afford extras (trips, classes, activities), but we could manage. I work part time and could fit HE around this.

The reason I'm posting in aibu is because I know all the reasons why I want to do this; I guess I want to hear some opposing opinions so I can feel whether they are enough to make me change my mind.

Fire away! Grin

OP posts:
MadameDefarge · 14/09/2011 19:21

Ah, safety goggles! And an apron! and he held the lighted match! (a big ask for a severely dyspraxic little boy, but maybe they will push him in a way I might not!)

And still only 11, so must shoot down the no practical science until gcse theory.

exoticfruits · 14/09/2011 19:22

My friend'd DS has just gone to school for the very first time-he is 16yrs old and in the 6th form. He was the youngest of the family and never got the choice. He loves it and you think 'what was it all about-he would most likely have loved it at 5yrs)

saltyair · 14/09/2011 19:34

Something to consider, maybe - I've worked in both the primary sector and secondary sector and have had experiences with children who have come from Home Ed into school. You have no way of knowing whether at some stage you will have to/want to/your daughter will want to return to regular school. I have seen how very difficult this can be for children and young people - they become completely unused to being around that many other children, and often their social skills develop differently. Committing to HE for your child until they leave compulsory education is massive - how will she learn to discuss things with her peers, for example - a crucial skill if she then wnats to go to any sort of further education or training. How will you ensure that she is comfortable around people of all different types? It's a massive step.

hairylights · 14/09/2011 19:49

Yabu. Your posts (here and your other thread) sound as if it's all about you when it should be all about her (I was he til I was 7)

sieglinde · 14/09/2011 19:52

But the point is, MadameDefarge, that he could boil a saucepan dry at home :)

Ragged, I do think there are lots of different kinds of HE families; some I've met are as you say, but many aren't, and some might even admit that it's a cheaper, cosier form of private school. Probably the first group would also diss school if their dcs were at school. There are people who don't have much respect for qualifications.

Sorry, but what were you implying about the Op's choices? Didn't mean to misrepresent you. Many apologies if I did.

saltyair, I had a miserable time halfway through primary school because my parents moved across a state line and the curriculum was radically different and people had strange accents and different priorities. Changed circumstances are part of life too. And why should anyone be 'used' to being around lots of people their own age? I mean, I don't spend my entire time with my exact age peers. At most though not all universities there will be a wide age range, in fact, and when you say 'discuss', do you mean academic discussion or the stuff in the bar? Neither is really compulsory, and I've had students that did both, one or other, and also neither. Some of mine barely leave their rooms. Others barely leave the bar.

MadameDefarge · 14/09/2011 19:55

well yes, but he wouldn't do it at home. He shies away from that kind of stuff. At school he has no choice, then manages it, then feels great about himself.

Now I could point out to him he did it at school so where is the problem?

MadameDefarge · 14/09/2011 19:59

And FWIW, I took ds out of state primary precisely because he was failing...not academically, (bog average) but disappearing as a person...

So I found him a cosy little private that had an outstanding Ofsted for personal and social development.

Also, it took private to find out he is severely dyspraxic.

I could not have given him what he needed, which was the environment to grow and blossom as a person. The love and care of his school, and his gorgeous classmates have transformed him from a catatonic child to one who is easy going, a bit fretful but happy. I could not have given him that.

saltyair · 14/09/2011 20:02

Sieglinde - couldn't agree more that changing circumstances are part of life. I think teaching children to be flexible is hugely important. The point you make about people not spending time with people your exact age is true, but HE doesn't provide a big pool of people of any age, really, does it! It takes practise to get good at being around people, be they peers or older or younger.

maypole1 · 14/09/2011 20:08

sieglinde leading up to bigger experiments that he would of only got. A chance to do at school

sieglinde · 14/09/2011 20:10

gosh, saltyair, I'm not sure that twelve years of 'ordinary' schooling plus 3 years of university has socialised me, and obviously a D Phil only made it worse...

maypole1 · 14/09/2011 20:11

D phil ????????

saltyair · 14/09/2011 20:12

I'm not sure I understand the point you're making Sieglinde?

ImperialBlether · 14/09/2011 20:19

Nobody seems to have mentioned the skills of the teacher. Do people who HE think they know as much as a specialist teacher, if they are HE at 11+?

Never mind the social factor (where it seems absolutely obvious that it's better to have a wide group of children to mix with and find friendships and learn about how to get on with each other) and never mind the fact that a child is likely to find it absolutely awful to be with their mum all day and all night, what about the fact that half the time the mother (as it is usually) often as not won't have a clue what she's talking about and won't be able to talk off-topic.

Yes, we could all get ourselves through a course if we had to, but surely to god we all have something we could learn from an expert?

MumblingRagDoll · 14/09/2011 20:41

Imperial....you speak of children needing a "wider group of friends" but how does school provied that? Most chidren are in a class with kids of a similar economic background, from a similar area and of the same age.

HE kids meet children of all ages and all backgrounds on a regular basis. That seems wider to me.

They dont tend to be with their Mum dy and night....but they usually meet up with their groups and go to a lot of clubs too.

I think people who HE spend a LOT of time researching and swapping info and curriculum ideas...being an "expert" in teaching a subject does not always make a good teacher.

MumblingRagDoll · 14/09/2011 20:44

I am dumbfounded by the assumption that HE kids are closeted off...that they get no opportunity to mix....there are tonnes of HE groups all over the country....they do amazing things and they even have "school photos" and camps! some do shows and concerts....they are usually very active and creative people....

MadameDefarge · 14/09/2011 20:49

mumbling, you clearly don't live in an inner city area.

Bunbaker · 14/09/2011 20:59

"HE kids meet children of all ages and all backgrounds on a regular basis. That seems wider to me."

Actually, I don't think that would be true. I can't see children from deprived backgrounds being home educated by parents who are barely literate themselves. These kids might not be at school, but I doubt they are getting an education. I suspect that most home education is generally done by the well educated middle classes.

FigsAndWine · 14/09/2011 21:02

mummyandpig said "Oh ffs, I haven't read all the posts but some of them are just ridiculous. Especially the "personality disorder and no social skills" one. Jesus, how narrow minded can you get?!"

Fabby's comments usually are ridiculous - I didn't pay it a moment's attention and I suggest you don't either! Wink Same for maypole1's comments, frankly.

DD doesn't have a 'best friend' but has friends with whom she plays at school so she could still have them round to play. She has two friends (sisters) who live in our street, so they'd still be in and out of each other's houses, I expect.

I would get quite a bit of time away from my DD, ragged - as I said above, she could spend even more time with her dad if we HEed, and also with her DGPs, so she'd be away from me for days to weeks at a time.

OTheHugeRaveningWolef said "What's confusing me is that in your other post you say you have an 'authoritatian' parenting approach, which presumably mean forcing your DD to do things sometimes. Yet you object to forcing her to go to school. IF you're generally ok with forcing her todo things, why make an exception for school? Is this your own ishoos about your own schooling? Is it just that you don't like sharing your authority with her school? Either way, I think your motives are a bit iffy here."

As I?ve said on the other thread, I have a very authoritarian approach to manners ? I won?t tolerate DD speaking rudely to me or anyone else (constant battle since she can be incredibly bloody rude). DD argues with everything; on a good day, that provides lively debate, but there?s only so much explaining and debating I?m willing to do on whether she can have icecream/stay up later/play on the computer/not put on a coat/restrain the growling dog etc etc ad infinitum until I just make her do as she?s told. I am authoritarian in insisting she does what I tell her to do because I believe that to be (whatever I?m insisting on at the time) in her best interests. I?m not always convinced that going to school is in her best interests, thus I have more of an issue with forcing her to do so. No I don?t mind sharing my authority with the school ? I don?t see why on earth I would? Confused

bumbley said ?I'm sure here are some 'little shits' (lovely way to describe children btw featherbag) that are HE, there are also plenty in school too! At least in the HE environment you don't have to spend time with them everyday.? Grin My thoughts exactly! Great post and very informative, thank you. Smile Same to TeddyBare ? brilliant post and you expressed exactly what I?m thinking about the issue, especially teens. No problem with my DD questioning my opinions; she came out of the womb disagreeing with me. Grin I have always taught her that people believe a wide range of different things and that I don?t know what is definitively ?right?. I hold very different opinions on some things to her dad and other significant people in her life. I'm not one to say 'my opinion is the only right opinion' on most things.

Hard said ?But your child is not being bullied at all, and in fact enjoys going to school to socialize, so personally I would stick with the schooling? Some days DD is happy to go to school, but a lot of the time she doesn?t want to go and the reasons she cites are usually to do with other children. She frequently tells me that she is being bullied, but I don?t think that this is the case because I think she gives as good as she gets. She has always wanted to play with the boys, and play rough with the boys. On the one hand she gets upset when they hurt her ? and they do hurt her; she gets hit, kicked, chinese burns, pushed over, screamed at and insulted ? but on the other hand the boys do seem to like her in that they play with her (or at least chase and are chased by her Hmm), and I?ve always thought that this is how they play with each other, but fired up with a bit of resentment and fear since DD is big, loud and aggressive for a girl of her age. I?m not saying that all this happens every day, but there isn?t a day that she doesn?t come home with a (very minor) injury and a furious tale of injustice. Hmm Grin She doesn?t fight with the girls physically, but the nasty words upset her. Again, I?m sure she gives as good as she gets, but it does upset her.

Wordfactory said ?That said, the families who seem to make it work well for them are the ones who take a very relaxed approach to it. And tbh you don't seem relaxed.
Is this going to be somehting that stresses you out and consequently stresses your DD out?? I don?t know ? that?s exactly what I?m trying to work out!

Dawndonna that?s really reassuring, thank you. So glad it worked for you. Smile

Marfisa & A1980 I?m sorry to hear about your experiences. Were you given the informed free choice of whether to go to school or be HEed? It doesn?t sound like it. I?m not worried about a lack of adult role models for DD, tbh. As I said before, me, her dad, my DP, my parents are all very different personalities with very different views, but we all have her welfare paramount and are very involved with her life. She also has four odd-parents, and she?ll have other adults who?ll teach her sports, activities etc. Other family members too ? another two DGPs, uncle and aunt, family friends.

Ormirian said ??Why should she have to go somewhere every day that makes her stressed and upset?' Well because sometimes that is how the world works unfortunately. What you do about it is to try and find a way of making yourself less stressed and upset or find another place to go. You are taking away her choices in this matter.?

Ummm... I?m considering giving her the choice to be HEed because that?s what she wants... how is that taking away her choice to remove herself from a situation she finds stressful? Confused

orm said ?I'm curious to know what your DD thinks of the idea?? Ah I see ? you haven?t read my posts. Hmm

sieglinde said ?Frankly, my kids would probably be odd anywhere" Yes, me and mine too! Grin Great posts, thanks.

ImperialBlether said "I wanted to say what Bunbaker said. Your child seems to be incredibly tired and you are blaming this on school. Have you taken her to the doctor to have a check up? I would be very worried about my child if she was so tired.? I don?t think she?s ?incredibly? tired. I find it incredible that my neighbours children don?t go up to bed until 9 or 10pm. Confused She?s always needed a lot of sleep or she gets grumpy and fractious. I send her to bed so early because she reads for ages and sometimes isn?t asleep by 9 or 10pm ? she often takes a long time to fall asleep. Some mornings she?s up very early and is bright and cheerful (weekends, usually Angry) but many school mornings she is hard to rouse, tearful and uncooperative, complaining that she is really tired, that she aches, that she needs a quiet day. It?s never occurred to me to take her to the doctors for that; she has plenty of energy when she?s enthused by something.

Today DD had about an hour and a half quietly playing in her room, then we had breakfast and she did 45 mins Spanish audio course. Minimal moaning, but she got arsey with me when I tried to help her, so I let her do it all herself. Then she had a long conversation with my mum on the phone about WW2, evacuees etc, which they're doing as a topic at school. A bit later she was telling me that she'd like to learn more about prehistoric sea creatures. I suggested she go and research the megalodon, since that was what she was talking about. She did so on the pc. We then took the dog for a walk and did some foraging for fungi. DD absolutely loved this, and we spent an hour and a half hunting fungi, her cutting open earth balls to see the colour changes, identifying mushrooms, talking about fungus development. She was really excited to find a mature puffball, and puffed it for ages. We then went to a HE group local to us where she played with lots of children of different ages. She helped me cook the young puffballs we collected for her dinner, then she watched some nature programmes.

Personally I think that she got more out of today than she would have done at school.

OP posts:
sieglinde · 14/09/2011 21:02

D Phil = Oxford for phd.

My point was that socialisation is not an inevitable outcome of mainstream education. Wink

MadameDefarge · 14/09/2011 21:06

I could feel excluded, I really could.

Annunziata · 14/09/2011 21:16

Your day sounds lovely but it's not going to make sure your DD passes exams. What does she want to be when she's older? (I realise she is still very young.)

I would be very worried about home educating not working out and then not being able to get back into your school.

The grass is always greener....

FigsAndWine · 14/09/2011 21:19

Because I haven't replied to you madame? Sorry - it's taking me so long to consider and type replies that by the time I post, there are loads more post to consider and reply to! Grin

OP posts:
FigsAndWine · 14/09/2011 21:23

Annunziata we covered reading, history, languages, computer skills, biology, cookery and natural history today. Not too bad with view to her eventually gaining qualifications, is it?

OP posts:
FigsAndWine · 14/09/2011 21:26

Mainly she wants to be a marine biologist, Annunziata. Which is an improvement on when she was three; when I asked her what she wanted to be when she grew up, she replied "a vacuum cleaner"! Grin

OP posts:
Annunziata · 14/09/2011 21:30

Oh, she probably knows more widely about the subject, but exams are so much about answering a specific question the way the examiner wants and so on (at least in Scotland anyway, I believe GCSEs are the same?)

(My DS wanted to be a fire engine when he was 3!)