to consider taking my DD out of a perfectly good school to HE?

[FigsAndWine]

I am considering taking my 8 year old DD out of school and home educating. My reasons and reservations are detailed here

I've read a bit about HE and I'm feeling more and more that I want to do this. The two people whom I thought would be really negative about this (my best friend and my DM) have been very positive about it and think it would benefit DD. My DP thinks I'm a bit nuts (but then he does anyway... ) but will support my decision. My exDP (DD's dad) is also in a good postion to HE, as he is self employed and therefore flexible with his time, and is very involved with DD.

The school DD is at is a good one. It is over-subscribed, good with outstanding features according to ofsted. I just think that DD would thrive more out of a school environment. It will be a squeeze financially to afford extras (trips, classes, activities), but we could manage. I work part time and could fit HE around this.

The reason I'm posting in aibu is because I know all the reasons why I want to do this; I guess I want to hear some opposing opinions so I can feel whether they are enough to make me change my mind.

Fire away!

Why don't you trial it for a year and see how you both get on, although it can take about that to get into it.

I HE btw and I'm not a control freak but my ds has SN which were not met in the school environment. If he had stayed in that environment he would have ended up with a personality disorder and no social skills (thanks Fabby!).

You don't actually mention having asked DD! Would she want to? (it would have filled me with horror as a DC).

Interesting how much this conversation has focused on social issues. if that is really what school is for, why worry about marks or declining national standards? I had formed the impression that school was also about erm education....

FabbyChic Tue 13-Sep-11 22:40:48
Do you want her to grow up with a personality disorder and no social skills? Yes. Then Home Educate.

She needs the best start in life you won't be giving it to her.

It's not about YOU, it's about what is best for your child, that is not a home education

OMFG!! What a hideous thing to say! Whether the OP is right or wrong to HE, to make a sweeping statement that children who are HE have personalility disorders is outrageous.

exotic yes she did....if you read the thread she said early on that DD wants to do it. HE that is.

tittybangbang Wed 14-Sep-11 13:49:45
Chandon - that is exactly what I mean.

"They can talk endlessly about R&B but couldn't name you one piece of classical music, world music or jazz.

They don't know who the leader of the opposition is or what sort of voting system we have in this country or anywhere else.

They don't read newspapers.

They've never sat through a film older than they are.

They don't know the names of any plants or trees.

They can't cook and they're fussy about food.

They don't read novels or poetry.

They've never been to the theatre or to a gallery outside of school visits.

It's not good."

It is certainly not good, but doesn't it tell you something about the parents of these children?

I don't know any parents who have genuinely wanted to introduce their dcs to the above things but found that there was no time after school/at weekends/during the holidays to take them to the theatre or introduce them to good home cooking. A child who is so exhausted by 6 1/2 hours of school that they cannot even watch an interesting film on Saturday evening or go for a walk on Sunday and look at the local trees needs to see a doctor.

If the children are as you describe above, then that shows that the parents can't be arsed. In which case being HE'd by these same parents is hardly likely to represent an improvement.

I think HE can be an excellent thing in the right family. But a family that turns out children like the ones you describe isn't magically going to be transformed into a different kind of family just by taking their children out of school.

sieglinde exactly...and some kids dont thrive socially at school.

There is a massive time outside school hours to cook, garden, read newspapers etc.
Sorry-I missed that she wanted to. Maybe try it as an experiment-I bet she will be back within a year-neither will be able to stand it!

@ Sieglinde
well.... if we want to touch purely on academics, here are some academic drawbacks to HE:

Most people have biases in what they'll teach. Not just gaps in knowledge but aversion/inability. For instance, I loathe drama, have a lousy ear for music & cannot get my head around D&T. Maybe my kids would be good at those, but I lack the ability to inspire them or lead them well! All of the HE-ing families I know have one or more subjects they turn their noses up at, I mean stuff like RE, ICT or English literature, never mind bricklaying or hairdressing. And society needs brickies and haircutters, too.

Most HErs struggle to afford the specialist equipment or develop the expertise to do science lab work, or some practical things like woodwork or PE (need facilities & equipment).

Most GCSEs are now heavily coursework based (have to be externally marked); HErs usually have to go for the exam-based iGCSEs instead (extra single event pressure, narrower focus).

You have to pay for the iGCSE exams (first sitting). This would be paid for by a state secondary school otherwise. One of the HEing families I know can only afford for their DC to do a max. of 5 GCSE exams.

Catching up - Marfisa, is sending your kid to Eton an act performed with no thought of self? Not to mention the opposite trend, the local comp irrespective of merit because it ought to be good enuff.

Ok, joke over now. I think most choices all of us make are at least partly about us. How could it ever be otherwise? But I also think most parents, including the OP, are trying to do their best for their children - the ideal might not be available, so it's a question of what compromises you and your dcs can best live with. Nobody is saying HE is perfect, but most schools aren't perfect either.

Exotic we can't possibly know if they will manage well or not as we dont know them....plus there is NOT a massive time outside school for cooking and things....some kids are so wiped out by school they dont want to anyway.

She says 30 years ago, 14-15 year olds might have already read some of the classics (Austen, Dickens, Steinbeck or something like Moby Dick), whereas now it is pretty special to find a teen who has even heard of these books, let alone read them....for fun.

I can conclusively state that I wasn't even aware that certain books were considered "classic literature" at age 14-15 and that was almost exactly 30 years ago. My friends certainly wouldn't have read any of them either. My parents certainly hadn't in spite of the fact that they both went to grammar school in the 1950s. However, I did start to read classic novels at the age of 16/17.

tittybangbang my 8 year old can tick almost all of that list off as things he can do or has done because those are things that matter to me and things where I have the time and resources to make them happen. DS1 is not HE nor was I. And one of the reasons that I do those things is because my parents also did them with me. It speaks less about the type of schooling and more about the time, resources and educational background of the parents.

Figs I think you need to sort out your routine in the mornings rather than getting stressed at your daughter. I have to get two primary age kids out every morning to do the school run before work. The only way I can manage this is to organise everything the night before - clothes laid out, books / letters etc in bags/ packed lunches made. I get up before the kids so I can have a shower, coffee, get dressed etc in peace so I can focus on getting them sorted once they get up. It will really help to lower your stress levels in the morning which will help you both get your DD to school in a good frame of mind.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude totally agree my dd is not he and the only thing on the list thats he dose not do is talk about r and b he likes the specials and mr scuff

Everything else he dose on a regular Basis we actually went to see. The war horse in the summer holidays and in january we are taking him to see Matilda by r dhal

Dd dose swimming, chess club and has a tutor during the week attends church and the gym at weekends

The entire weekend MumblingRagDoll and about 13 weeks in the year. I'm not suggesting they do more of the same- but mine were quite happy to go and do something physical after school. The DC is 8yrs not 5yrs-I expect she can cope with a bike ride, making a cake-digging the garden.

thanks marfisa, chandon, tbb for replies

That was interesting marfisa. Food for thought.

I really think that in your case HE might damage your relationship with your dd.My mum used to say that 'the only way to keep your children close is to let them fly'.I think you should be encouraging your dd to fly out into the world and make friends.Being constantly with parents sounds very overpowering and restrictive to me.I am all for HE for a family group or if a dc is being bullied but not for an 'only' who is already being rather 'hothoused'.

Interesting, ragged.

Quite agree on all this in a way. (Since ds is dyspraxic his chances of success in those trades are REALLY low, however...)

On the other hand ds - who has just done 12 GCSEs at a private school - seemed not to be exposed to hairdressing or ANY drama, much to his dismay - he likes acting and also dyeing his hair - and did virtually all iGCSEs. Presumably you wouldn't see this as a horrible me-centred choice, though? Or would you? My own thought was that if he does want to be a brickie or a hairdresser there might be time later, but if he wants to read either physics or law (which is what he says now) it was up to me to try to make sure he got good enough results to do those things if he chose to.

Conversely, too, there's the fact that languages are currently taught very dispiritingly badly in most state schools, that exams in them are very dumbed down - and that the same might be said of both humanities and multistrand science, while maths has apparently been so dramatically dumbed down that my colleagues in it are saying that they will soon have to introduce a foundation year.

Yes to the lab equipment, however - though they seem only to get to use that fairly late on and I think the OP's dd is pre-GCSE. The crucial thing about HE I think is WHEN to do it. I would not have been keen to take either of my children out of school before 10 or after 14, FWIW, but your mileage may well vary.

There is also a financial question which is usually neglected but actually very important - most HE groups actually offer group work for GCSEs, but at a price... though this usually does involve lab equipment; there's such a course running in Oxfordshire as I write. Presumably drama-mad dcs could go to Stagecoach or the like? Music-mad dcs to a private teacher and also the bucketloads of music activities on in the holidays? But surely it's unreasonable to make any dcs do all these things willy-nilly, however their mainstream education is conducted?

I wouldn't in a million years. I think kids benefit from going to school, and it's important. And that's about all I can say without sounding rude about HE.

I agree with pranma-especially as it is already a rather volatile mother/daughter relationship. It all sounds as if it will get too intensive. They need space from each other- and other people- to diffuse it.

how children frame things is important also, and that's a life skill not easily taught one to one.

For example ds, a fragile flower if ever there was one, has just started secondary. he told me yesterday, very cheerfully, about a "prank" acouple of girls had pulled on him. (unzipped his bag while pretending to chat) I was most impressed that he framed it as a prank rather than nastiness. He learnt those skills at school, I don't see how he could have learnt them with me.

oh, and was very excited at using a bunsen burner for the first time also.

Ds has been in a private school for three years, and now back in the state system. And seems to love it.

Sieglande replying to me: DS...did virtually all iGCSEs. Presumably you wouldn't see this as a horrible me-centred choice, though?

I don't understand that comment, nowhere have I said to OP that she was being self-centred, if that's the allusion.

Maybe I've got Confirmation Bias now, but I started out the opposite, thinking I would like to HE myself, maybe. It's listening to HErs moan about the practical problems they encounter that inspired my previous list!

One other thing, again on the academic front... most the HErs I know constantly talk down and rubbish academic environments and achievement. Schools? Teachers? GCSEs? A-levels? University? University degrees? All criticised HEAVILY and loudly... and in their children's hearing. I can't see that that inspires their children to be high academic achievers in the long run, either.

Oh mine too dd was very chuffed he had boiled some water to day and wore safety googles