to consider private school even if...

[stella1w]

... it means no holidays, treats, nice clothes etc etc ever for the next 18 years?

My parents scrimped and saved to put me and my sister through private school even though they had a very low income.

I also have a low income but feel I should make all sacrifices necessary.. on the other hand, I don't think putting myself under severe financial stress during the recession would make me such a good parent either.

Feeling guilty either way..

Bright spot is local infant school just got "outstanding" ofsted report, though the juniors was only "satisfactory"

PS I also know of a bright teenager who was thoroughly miserable at Eton, but thrived once transferred to the local state school. So much depends on the individual child and the individual school.

YABVU.

I am a state-educated lawyer married to a state-educated investment banker. We blessed with supportive parents, who took the time and effort to make sure we were working hard and happy. That is the key. We could afford to send children to private school but I won't.

I can see why people do send kids to private school, being told you can if you try shouldn't be underestimated, I know of schools that constantly tell bright kids not to bother because there's no uni places/jobs etc so why try. BUT I've also seen some terrible private school Vs kid "matches". They can be quite themed and some will thrive at military style ones and turn into lazy stoners at artsey ones, or be totally crushed by a military type one and thrive at an artsey one. It never ceases to amaze me where some parents who choose private, choose to send their kids. I sometimes wanna ask if they've actually MET their kids? State schools seem less themed IYKWIM, whereas there's all kinds of private school and sometimes I think more care should be taken choosing a private than is required for state as there's more of a spectrum. I don't think the OP has mentioned specific reasons for wanting a specific private school based on the OPs individual kids and for that reason I also think YABU

I went to a state primary and had a state assisted place at a (not very good) private school, which my parents thought was "my big chance" (fuss, fuss, fuss). I was very unhappy -I was a very angry, lefty teen and thought that private schools were either ridiculous or unfair or both. At least it was "ok" for me to be clever at my school, though.

I applied in a rather blind way to Oxbridge colleges and ended up in a very academic one. I thought a lot of the private schoolboys were a bit pathetic. I always thought I wanted my kids to be, well, more likeable than that.

The coolest kids had been to comprehensives. I heard one of them, on the radio, fairly recently, in a debate about education. The person he was interviewing assumed that he had been educated privately. My ex college acquaintance took a quiet satisfaction (so it sounded) in saying, no, he had been to a comp. He got a first, if I recall correctly. He is a very good advert for comp education.

Having said that, mellowing in middle age, and in a profession, I can envisage some circumstances in which I might think about private education, especially, say, if a child really wanted to go to a particular school/ had an ability such as music that would be especially nurtured there/ got a big bursary/ the other options were awful...

Agree it absolutely depends on the school, not the sector.

It also sounds a short-medium term thing until your household income will rise?

We made all the sacrifices a few years ago. Didn't go on holiday, ate pasta (lots!), drove an old car, tried to stop drinking wine .

It was absolutely bloody worth it imo looking back . I look at my confident happy child and I am 100% positive I did the right thing. There's no associated 'lifestyle' you need to buy to go alongside it. You sound intelligent, happy, training to have a different career. You'll find parents like that in the independent sector, as everywhere.

Our household income has risen now so it's much easier. But we will never, ever be the high earners in their classes! But so flaming what. Our children are worth it.

If you are on a low income (and that I guess is relative) then you are not going to be able to afford private education unless you apply for a busary. If you really wont be able to afford new clothes and holidays for 18 YEARS then it is not doable IMHO.

Imperial - my DS goes to a similar school to Eton. Personally I am not sending him there for the results although they are excellent, he goes there because he is middle range, their sports fields run as far as you can see, he has opportunities to try different things. The class sizes are small, there are of course some fab state schools and we are in the catchment for grammar's. However around here they are for the middle classes who hire private tutors and then smugly inform everyone that they believe in state education.

Personally I wouldnt class the grammar's as state, they are obsessed with grades to the detriment of sports and anything else. They are private schools for smug middle classes who dont want to pay fees!

Are you basing this assumption on just one grammar school you happen to know of? I would love to see more grammar schools so more young people without rich parents can benefit from a very academic education if this suits their ability.

"Personally I wouldnt class the grammar's as state, they are obsessed with grades to the detriment of sports and anything else. They are private schools for smug middle classes who dont want to pay fees!"

always 'I know of schools that constantly tell bright kids not to bother because there's no uni places/jobs etc so why try.'

I don't know of any who do that.

Quite so Killer. My children on the other hand are worth jack-shit, which is why I think the state comprehensive down the road will do them.

That 'worth it' attitude is despicable, and it's why any child of mine would go to private school over my dead and rotting body.

Malcontent, the attitude in your last sentence is also pretty nasty. So all private school parents have this 'worth it' attitude, do they? And that would make you send your children to private school over your dead and rotting body? No generalisations there, then.

OP, "... it means no holidays, treats, nice clothes etc etc ever for the next 18 years?"

That is our life and, yes, it is worth it a thousand times over.

Molcon, that's great, in that case there's much less case for private schooling in the area(s) you've lived in. Where I live it's depressing to hear what bright kids are being told about subject choices and further education/careers. I've worked in some and seen it first hand. Its not always the case and I think often state is better than private in many towns, and private is only really worth it if it's well matched to the child, they can do the extras, and the state schools available would badly fail them. I was just saying that I can see an arguement for private schooling in some cases (like where aspirations are kept quite low in the available state schools).

My children won't go to private school on principle, and it's a principle I feel very very strongly about.

I do think the 'worth it' line pretty bloody awful (especially as my child is at one of the schools Killer feel unworthy). And yet, amazingly, she too is happy, confident and achieving academically! Go figure.....!

I don't want them only to encounter people of whom the very very poorest can still find £12k a year through simply eating more pasta, either. Hardly the real world, is it?

Cereal, sadly no, there are lots of grammar's around here (Bucks). I would very much like to see more grammar's UK wide. Make them for the brighest kids, and not make the 11+ v difficult to pass without private tutition. I went to sec school the year the grammar's were largely abolished by Shirley Williams (who sent her own children to a very snazzy school and opted out herself!), worst decision Labour made but then they love to make these decisions having benefited from private education themselves. Look at Diane Abbott - the state schools werent good enough for her and her son.

Personally I would like to see different types of education, grammar's, techincal type colleges with apprentiships and the like etc, dont try and make every college a university. Make the trades every bit as important and useful as a first from Oxford.

Go and look at all your local schools.
You may find the one that you, and importantly, your dc like best is a state school. Then there will be no dilemma.

There are shit schools and great schools in both sectors. Don't make assumptions - it is dim.

It is easy to be smug about state education when you live in a great catchment area (and probably a very nice area).

It's easy also to assume that anyone happy with the state school her child attends must live in a leafy suburb or whatever. We don't. We moved here when the children were 7 and 2, vaguely aware the school round the corner wasn't terribly well thought of at the time, but we couldn't afford a third bedroom anywhere else. The school improved (lots did back then - ah the glory days of the Labour government) and it's worked out well.

I dont' see how my position is any smugger than the 'she's worth it' line.

I think saying never under any circumstances to private school is as bad as assuming that private = better than state by definition without other factors comming into play

Rocky, that boyfriend was talking about results. He wasn't particularly happy there and felt he didn't have a 'normal' family life because his parents, his sister and his brother all lived/went to school/university in different countries. Still, he wanted his son to go to Eton despite this as he believed it was the best school in the country.

Maybe some grammars are like that. Maybe most, though, offer an opportunity to bright children whose parents couldn't afford a private education. I think my daughter's headteacher would argue all night that they focused on an all round education. Certainly, they competed at a high level in sport as well as debating, chess etc.

Incidentally, there is a high proportion of working class children in the grammar schools I've known. I don't know, of course, how many there are in the grammar schools you know.

Imperial - Eton is an interesting one isnt it? There are Russian companies setting themselves as tutors to get boys from abroad into the sschool. It has become very multi cultural but I know that most well known private schools have an unwritten 10% rule on kids from abroad. Eton and the like could fill their school with Russian boys, Saudi princes etc but IMHO are right to ensure that they are largely filled with people living in this country. Our private education system is seen as one of the best in the world hence the demand for places.

Not sure I agree with you regarding sports etc. My DS has never played a grammar school at anything he competes at, squash, rugby etc. Around here I know lots of parents who have used the private system and then left at 11 to join a grammar - I would say over 50% are not happy at the end of it. They are obsessed with grades and their position in the league tables.

I'm with malcontent . I would never send my child to private school. I think education is far more than exams and grades. It's about learning social skills, widening horizons and mixing with people from different backgrounds. I think a state school is the best place to provide this. My state schools taught me to reflect, question and analyse and I got good grades too.

Malcontent, thank you for the dealing with the "they're worth it" comment so I didn't have to! God that makes my blood boil.

ditto the 'worth it' comment ...My kids are also worth 'it' and I think they are getting 'it' too....

I do think it is sad that there are a whole load of ill informed parents that just basically assume private education=better education

I absolutely agree that school is about more than grades and the social thing is very important. But sometimes state schools do NOT provide a mix and SOME private schools do a little bit more (in particular areas). One secondary near me is within a council estate and the vast majority of the kids there are from the council estate as the surrounding areas are in other catchments if that makes sense. Its very ghettoised and kids from there are in a bubble not really mixing with kids from 10 mins down the road. i think that is wrong. Some local private schools have a little more variety and a slightly wider range of different lifestyles. I went to state school with kids from council estates AND massive posh houses AND everything in between. I also don't think its right for kids to only grow with others from one and the same background but that's not something that only happens is SOME private schools, it happens in SOME state ones too.

yes, I think it has been said before that the key thing is school not sector...for those few who have the cash to afford the choice....