to think that only children are lousy at playing ?

[RosemaryandThyme]

Have had variety of children round to play during the school holidays and have had awful times with visits from and to three children, all boys all age six and all only-children.
None of them seem able to join in or involve others in games, often having break-downs or crying fits (yesturdays boy cried five times in an hour!) all over not getting the toy they wanted or basically not getting their own way.
I appreciate all kids are different and we all parent differently but wonder if anyone else has noticed particular play difficulties with only children ?

QOD - my DS is the opposite. He can join in games with groups of children that have already established a game - and he'll be happily incorporated into the game. He's also rather physical - easily managed with boys, and he's now learned that girls are wimps that run to mummy have to be treated more gently

R&T - its fascinating hearing how things work where you are - and anything you want to ask about how things work 'outside', let us know.

bossiest child I know is the youngest of 3

Thank you mistlethrush - I'd love to ask some questions if that's Ok, one would be about how much time generally children spend formally studying outside of school hours - there is a little chat going on over on the next page (AIBU, p3 to think you can't over-extend?) that a very nice OP has started - that's making me realise just how different our approach here might be.
Also I frequently wonder how other peoples days flow, here we each have schedules/timetables that interlink, for example allotment work is on three or four adults schedules at the same time say (6-7pm) meals for those adults and their familes will then be cooked during this time by other adults who have cooking on their schedule, the children of those cooking / digging are therefore being taught by other adults in that slot and so on and so on.

Well, my son's only 6, just going into year 2 - at the moment all we can do is pick him up after whichever after school club he's been at (mainly all sporty) - get home, sort the little bit of homework he has, have tea and go to bed. This year we're going to try to do 5 or 10 mins piano or violin before school. We do reading too - but that doesn't count unless its a school book according to ds . In terms of 'learning' ds has a similar attitude - if its something we're visiting, talking about, listening to etc - its absolutely fine. If its 'school work' its a chore. So he's not bad (for a 6yo) on WW history, the fact that propellor planes had machine guns that were timed to fire between the propellors etc... and he's quite happy to do detailed maps, or drawings of cars including inside, from the top etc.... To be honest, I don't think school is particularly helpful, but I'm hoping its going to be a bit better this year.

Hi Rosemary,
I am sure mistlethrush will be back soon. In the mean time...
I think how much time children spend formally studying outside of school hours depends on many things eg, age of child, what type of school they go to, input of and expectation of parents. If you look at primary education etc you will see threads discussing/ arguing about how much work a child should do outside of school/ in the holidays.

Your day sound very ordered and routined. Again different people organise themselves in different ways. Obviously communal living on a 'community' scale is different to a small family.

I imagine there are aspects of your lifestyle that are very supportive with a community working together. I can also imagine that what is supportive mostly can sometimes feel restrictive.

Look forward to hearing from you soon.

crossed posts. Sorry!! slow typer!

Oh - but I should say that one of ds's friends does chineese school all morning on a Saturday and is learning mandarin... and several at the school go on to do two or more hours at religious school learning about the koran etc

2Boys - Good Evening ! (your Good Morning to me the other day was a real lift - I'd taken quite a lot of swear words on this thread and had woken up in the morning worrying about having upset lots of people).

And yes it is very organised here, if your having a time in your life where your confused about making several decisions in one go (say leaving university, finding a job, place to live, building a life outside of the routines of school/college/university) it can be daunting.
Community life can then be a comforting (maybe easy) path to choose, I stepped into an organised structure and timetable without really thinking, now that I have children of my own their comments have really got me thinking.

Your childrens' childhood sounds lovely - much more designed (not the right word I know !) for each childs individual interests.

Here girls and boys have different resources in home learning but the same quantity of taught time.
From age 4 to 8 their schedule (6 days a week) is :

45 mins maths before breakfast.
1hr learning/practicing reading 3.30-4.30
45 mins talking time (debating and discussion skils) 5-5.45pm during which children also eat supper.
45 maths re-inforcement of morning work 6-6.45pm

Gosh I bet that's such a yawn for you guys to read, sorry to keep on about myself so much.

Yes Just - regular school hours 9-3.15pm, home learning slots around school.

Good point - and yes please do be honest.

Play is (gosh I hate to even type this !) - scheduled !
and I'm realising for much much less time then children outside the community.

RosemaryandThyme - when do the children get to play and run free, and be children? Do they get the chance to do extra curricular activities such as dancing, drama, sport, music, etc?

Extra curricular activities - no not really, but they do have swimming lessons in town once a week.
School offer some after-school clubs (football, choir and some others I think) but community children don't go as they wouldn't be able to fit in the evening work.
School also stopped sending any homework at all last year, I think they too were a bit alarmed at the volume of project folders and work from home the community children were taking in when all that had been sent home to do was a couple of worksheets.
I should have stopped mine taking all the extened stuff into school, I just assumed all the other children were doing similar things.

I don't think there ws ever a plan to hot-house children but it has evolved over time, each decision gets made piece-meal so that in isolation there is a consensus / general view of reasonableness - it's only when someone from the outside looks at the over-all picture it all seems unusual. - I think more and more that's where the pressure not to talk to anyone in too much detail comes from.

R&T - sorry, the thread dropped off of my Threads I'm on List (I spent far too much time on MN this weekend so it got pushed off of the bottom!! )

I would like to be honest with you - but I don't want to upset you. Please let me/us know if you feel we are being too critical OK :)

I understand what you are saying about falling into the routine so it makes it 'easy' (I guess not having to make too many decisions?), but to me, it seems very very restrictive. There's just no way I could live like that - having my life timetabled by someone else.

Your childrens' lives seem quite lacking in fun & enjoyment & I find that very sad.

I don't want to make you feel dissatisfied with your life - but I wish you could come and stay with us for a while and then decide which life you'd rather live. It feels, to me, like you have never really made that choice fully knowing what your options are.

As for other people knowing what I post... well - I try to stay anonymous because I post things about family etc that I'd rather they didn't know (or at least quite so bluntly ) and some of the threads about sex/relationships/mooncups I'd rather family & general aquaintances didn't read!! But I have a few MN friends that are now RL (real life) friends and I know they read my posts - but that's fine, there's nothing I wouldn't tell them!

I can imagine that some of our conversations are quite an eye opener to you!!

What I find disturbing is that you are meant to be in a community and "sharing" and "helping" each other yet you were told to give up work as you "couldn't cope". Why was there not someone helping you cope? Why is childcare seen as primarily the woman's role, and her only function?

This sounds very restrictive and sexist. Many women work and have 3 children, and they get support from family and friends, or pay a childminder. It sounds like you only get support if it is on their terms, i.e. mothers should not work...so you were given no help with childcare in 9am-5pm yet someone will teach your children all evening, when you could be with them? Why did no one offer to help during the day when they were too young for school? Because their ethos says women shouldn't work, so they made sure you couldn't.

I also think your dad gave you the car hoping you would leave this place. He must feel like he has lost his child, once you went into this "community".

It sounds really quite dreadful, and a community only within a very narrow definition. Their goal appears to be be obedience and conformity and very little free will.

I think it varies. I think sometimes children with siblings, especially ones who aren't first born, can be worse. They are used to having to be competitive over things, and resenting their siblings, and whining indignantly when they don't get as long a turn on the trampoline as their brother or whatever. Only children can be, as a previous poster pointed out, a bit more chilled out on a playdate because they don't have to share all the time, so don't get stressed about it for a couple of hours.

Hi rosemary, I clicked on your thread to defend my only child (not only through choice!) but having read your posts I'm now more interested in your community as I've never heard of anything like it before in the uk.

Higher up the thread you mentioned that the children think of going to school as a privilege, and that it can be taken away, is that right? The child could be pulled out of school for losing something? In that case, what would happen to their education? (I'm not trying to offend, I'm genuinely interested). I'm also amazed that your decision to send your children to school was a community one, and that as a woman you arent allowed much contact with the outside world. Do you feel very isolated? How do you think that affects the girls in the community, are they 'allowed' to attend university for example?

YABVU. My DS (7) only child can play very well. He is able to play board games without stopping when losing/ he lost (unlike 3 children his age and older I know who have siblings).

He plays the pacifist quite a lot when trying to stop siblings arguing over nothing to distract them back to playing.

He can amuse himself far better than children I know who have company a lot of the time.

In fact the only time he has problems is when children do the old 'this is our game and you can't play' as he doesn't understand why they do it and isn't able to stand up for himself.

Oh heck - I'll do my best to answer.

I really really don't mind being critised - we're exploring each others points of view and I'm very happy to do that.
I would prefer not to be sworn at only because I don't want to anger anyone else.

With being pulled out of school - yes absolutley - parents here have taken children out of school, mostly it has coincided with a decision by the parents to move on from community life completely.

My Dad is my last remaining family member to visit regularly, my Mum and Sister can't abide it here and we have fallen out about it several times over the years.
However when I had my first child my Mum and I rebuilt our relationship, she has been absolutley fantastic even though I know it is hard for her to keep quiet at times.
whilst I don't visit them much both my parents do have my children to stay regularly, dad collects them from here and brings them back.
My children adore spending time with them - no timetables, no lessons at all !
As they get older they are finding it more difficult to slide back into their schedules when they come back.

Oh youarekidding - I really did not mean to upset anyone, and yes I'm getting it now - well what did I expect - I just never thought it through that people would get be upset, I'm sorry - if i could go back and change the title of the thread I would.

R&T - I don't know how long you've been on MN, but don't be suprised if people who have only read your OP (original post) come on and shout & swear. 'Only Children' can be quite a hot spot.

Does your childrens reaction make you consider what life would be like if you were to leave? Does it make you think about leaving?

I have to say, if I was your Mum or Sister I would be heartbroken for you to be living there. I'm glad your kids go to stay with them and that your Dad visits you :)