to have laughed when my fil told my dh

[biddysmama]

that he should stop me from breastfeeding now as dd is too old? (shes 2,ds is 1 and im pg)

do people do what their husbands tell them to? ive got a mind of my own thanks very much

if you have ever breastfed a BABY you would know there is NOTHING REMOTELY sexual about it

My way of lampooning the statement that the only reason for objecting to EBF is sexual. Hence the

Both are as bollocks as each other.....

"Cross-cultural accounts provide evidence of societies, such as the UK and North America, where there is a strong association of the breast with sex (Dettwyler 1995b, Rodriguez-Garcia and Frazier 1995). The sexual nature of the breast in the UK means that breastfeeding is ultimately linked with female sexuality, and this might be an important factor influencing a woman?s success in breastfeeding. At the other end of the spectrum there are societies, such as Mali, where the breast is not considered to be sexually arousing during sexual intercourse (Latteier 1998). There are also societies in which the breast is regarded as both sexual and maternal, which enables a breastfeeding culture to exist within a society that sexualises the breast (Latteier 1998).
The media have the ability to influence public opinion. Breastfeeding women are acutely aware of the media?s interest in aspects of breastfeeding (Britton 2000). The sexualisation of the breast through media images has become commonplace in UK society, with various newspapers, magazines and television programmes portraying the female breast as sexual. In the UK there is a strong cultural preference for sexualised breasts. When women breastfeed they may be seen as transgressing the boundary bet- ween motherhood and sexuality (Young 1998). The media can also influence attitudes to breastfeeding (Henderson, et al. 2000). The media?s interest in breastfeeding often focuses on problems associated with breastfeeding in the social world. For years there have been regular reports in popular magazines and newspapers encouraging public debate of topics, such as whether women should breastfeed in public or the merits of breastfeeding older children."

Well done to the OP for breastfeeding 2 healthy children. My DS had just one bedtime feed at 2 and dropped it when HE was ready. It is not weird in any shape or form, keep up the good work, you are doing what is best for your children.

pamsco - you list other possible reasons. maybe they do or do not play a part and yes, you've got me thinking that maybe there are other reasons. i still think the sexualisation of breasts are and must be the main reason why people disagree with the idea of extended feeding. i also think a lot of reasons must be subconscious and difficult for people to articulate, as these attitudes are difficult to disentangle from cultural influences.

anyway, i need to get on really.

thanks redsun

Stupid analogy time but:

Put it this way if babies fed out the end of your index finger no one would have a problem with babies being BF at 1 or 2 or 3. The reason people don't like it is it is because it (shock horror!) involves boobs, and boobs as we all know are for titilation.

Naked tits sell everything from newspapers to holidays, they are displayed in shop fronts, in magazines and they jiggle all over prime time TV.

Brainwashing/cultural conditioning however you dress it up is an objection to BF on the basis that jugs are for sexual gratification and therefore they are "rude" and should be kept out of sight, unless being used for their "proper" purpose.

Pamsco another one here who does not understand what points you are trying to make?

But then I also don't get Whatmeworry Fabby ImperialBlether or SqueakyToy and BimboNo5 mind you I wouldn't expect to get any post from someone who chose a posting name with Bimbo in it.

Yet again another thread about natural term breastfeeding with ignorant posters saying it's sick etc. Sigh.

I have a differing opinion as to why breastfeeding in the west is less popular than in other places and it's not (entirely) to do with the sexualisation of the breast.
It's formula milk companies!!!! They have systematically undermined the confidence of mothers to provide their babies with enough nutrition through breastfeeding. It suits them very much that there is a so-called debate over breastfeeding, they provide the alternative! People don"t realise it is these companies that are brainwashing them, in collusion with the media no doubt.
If there was no alternative to breastfeeding everyone would do it or their babies would die.

A simple solution would be to have formula as prescription only for those with genuine medical reasons that they can't breastfeed.

Yes I agree Trinot I believe South Africa has recently stopped the formula free feeding programme for the same reasons you mention. The sexualisation reason is just one. One reason that I think is very prominent in UK society.

agreed trinot

The only way to sell more formula is to sell less breastfeeding.

When the formula industry produces materials on breastfeeding you might just find the following (banthebags.org):

▪ Repeatedly describing only the ?benefits? of breastfeeding, and never referring to the risks of not breastfeeding. Breastfeeding is the biologically normal way babies are fed; to describe the ?benefits? of breastfeeding implies that formula is the normal way babies are fed.
▪ Using superlative language to describe breastfeeding or breastmilk such as ?best? or ?optimal,? knowing that most people will settle for ?good enough? or ?average? and the ideal or optimal products are often beyond the reach or desire of the average person.
▪ Overemphasizing how difficult breastfeeding can be?focusing on mothers? struggles, pain, guilt, leaky breasts, etc. Included in this category are materials that emphasize the different kinds of equipment a mother ?needs? in order to breastfeed: creams, pads, cover-ups, pumps, special clothing, etc.
▪ Using language above the reading level recommended for health literacy when producing educational materials for the general public. Health literacy experts recommend that materials be written at a sixth grade level. Materials written at sixth grade reading level have short simple sentences, without the need for commas.
▪ Using subtle language to ensure formula feeding mothers are included in all breastfeeding initiatives, as was illustrated in a letter from an Ohio representative to the Surgeon General included in the toolkit, predating the Surgeon General?s release of her Call to Action to Support Breastfeeding. The representative asks that the Call to Action be ?balanced and supportive of all mothers,? and ?improve the nutritional well being of all infants in this nation.?
▪ Failure to mention more serious diseases associated with early cessation of breastfeeding, and only mentioning more minor risks that are already commonly known.

Finally, there is almost no mention of the effect of introduction of formula on mother?s milk supply or her ability to breastfeed. Readers may be especially confused because well-respected material is included with obvious formula marketing material, making the entire package appear more credible than it really is.

Trinot I am uncomfortable with the idea of formula being prescription only however I do find it incredible that they have managed to perpetuate this idea that BF is at least as good as BF.

But again I think that relates more to the indivdual choosing not to feed than the thrid party finding it sick. Although I entirely accept that it is something of a vicious circle - if it was normalised less people would presumably have a problem with it.

And I totally understand why the individual chooses not to, FWIW I am fed up with wearing crap clothes (I am a dress girl at hear and it is a brave woman that BF's in a dress )

Queen- what makes you feel uncomfortable?

I think capitalism/consumerism has created a 'choice' where there shouldn't be one.

If breastfeeding were as profitable as formula we would have been brainwashed into thinking that formula feeding was weird, unnatural, creepy ect. Guaranteed.

If the breastfeeding cause wants to win the war, the only way is to find a way to make money out of it...or stop people making money from not breastfeeding.

I disagree about formula being only on prescription. I am far more for choice than I am for breastfeeding. I think what's needed is proper support for those who want to bf.

Because it stigmatises those who can't bf or struggle to. I would however like to see a total ban on formula advertising (for all ages) and better education and support for those that want to BF.

but you would say insulin stigmatised those who can't produce it? If it's a medical issue that is stopping someone from bfing I don't see how it is different from any other prescription.
I know that some people struggle (bit scared of a major backlash here but I am HONESTLY not trying to be inflammatory) but is it not possible that with proper support these struggles could be overcome? Is it common outside the west to struggle to bf or 'not enjoy' it? If not (I don't know if it is or not) then it confirms that these are cultural issues not medical.

Queen - my first thought is that formula only on prescription would be wrong too, but actually, I wonder if it would remove the stigma - suddenly, anyone formula feeding would be doing it for medical reasons, and so no disapproval/judgement would be supportable.

Way back in the threads now bimbo but my proof is that my natural term b/feeding children are never sick and are exceptionally sociable!

We could argue that might have been the case with them if I had chosen to FF, agreed ;but..it also proves it has done nothing detrimental.

It is a world where those ignorant of extended B/F ,can never cast doubt on it simply; as they are genuinely ignorant of how magical and vital it can be!

redsun I think what squeakytoy might have been implying is that at that age a child is perfectly capable of drinking from a cup and using a spoon at least, to eat their dinner. It's one of those learning curves on the way to being a grown up.

I assume you also think it would be perfectly acceptable for a four/five/six/whatever year old to still be drinking out of a babies bottle if they were bottle fed as babies? Sensing a feeling of entitlement coming on.

Oh and hats off to the women still getting up in the middle of the night to give a toddler a drink (in whatever vessel). Rod and Back?

Right, now that the bf-for-life brigade have hijacked the thread, which I think was originally about a reaction to a comment made by a Fil and not really about bf itself, can we all take a deep breath and Calm The Fuck Down?

Thank you.

dawny whatever...but can't you see that those (not you) that mock natural life feeders are hurting other women?

It is not cool.

BREASTS ARE FOR FEEDING BABIES/OUR CHILDREN

IMO, that totally negates any crap or debate, those not in favour spew out!

TO make formula available by prescription only would be a backward step in our culture.

Back when hardly any women breastfed the reason was the strong societal and medical pressure not to; the level of authority that the medical profession had over women's lives was extraordinary and not a good thing psychologically for women or children.

To replace tyranny that forced women in one direction the tyranny that forces them in the other would perhaps mean a net gain in the short term for breastfeeding rates but a bad thing for women in the short or long term, or for breastfeeding in the long term..

lol @ bf-for-life brigade!

I'm not one of those btw! I was just expressing some thoughts in a natural progression of a conversation.

Exactly, Feminine.

Can women choose what they want to do with their own bodies?

OP, do what you like, it's completely up to you. You seem to be really confident in your decisions as a mum and I must say I rather envy that!

I was only able to breastfeed for a week, I don't want to go into details about why but I was very saddened by that. I don't like the idea of only being allowed to have formula milk unless you have a medical note though! I felt inadequate enough when I had to stop amidst horrible PND. I would have felt even more rubbish about myself if I'd had to apply for a medical note in order to purchase forumula!

Anyway, OP, carry on, you sound brilliant.