to be horrified at the idea of my DS having 3 healthy teeth ripped out in the name of 'perfection'?

[keithlemonsbackdoors]

My son (nearly 16) has been offered orthodontic treatment on the NHS. Ay the first appointment they talked up how great his teeth would look after treatment, how he could have whatever colour braces he wants etc etc. No mention of pulling out teeth.

At the second appointment, after taking inpressions, x-rays etc, the orthodontist says casually (paraphrasing slightly) 'So if you can just make an appointment to have these 3 teeth extracted, thank you, lovely, bub-bye.'

Maybe I'm a bit, I don't know, overprotective? Squeamish? Mental?? But every time I think of taking him to a dentist & allowing him to go at his mouth with a pair of pliers I just want to cry. The pain, the blood, the massive gaps until his teeth are fixed... I actually cannot bear it. If he was in pain, or had massive issues about how his teeth look then I could probably get my head around it.

Truth is, he's never been THAT bothered about hs teeth (they're a bit sticky-outy - technical term I believe - because he sucked his thumb for years & a bit wonky it the bottom. When you look you can see they're not straight but you wouldn't think 'bloody hell, look at the state of his teeth!' to look at him.) but having a brace has become a bit of a fashion statement among his friends. I think he wants the brace more than he wants perfect teeth (although he's been brainwashed into thinking he NEEDS straight teeth by the orthodontist).

He also has ADD & has trouble seeing the big picture or thinking ahead. I don't think he really gets that it's a 4 year commitment, or that he will have to give up drinking coke, go to appointments every 6 wks etc. I don't really think it's fair to say no, because it's his choice to make. Also, it's now or never; we couldn't afford to have this done privately.

So am I being unreasonable in thinking I'll probably try to talk him out of it until he (hopefully) forgets about the idea?

I had 13 teeth pulled when I was a kid and braces for 4.5 years. They were painful at the time - but now my wisdom teeth ( age 41 - I kid you not) are coming through there is plenty space.

Dh didn't have his done and has loads of problems with his wisdom teeth growing into and cracking his back molars - he has ended up losing quite a few molars, leaving gaps.

Another person trying to convince you that it's not just about appearances. If your teeth aren't straight, they get worse as you get older, and depending on what the problem is you will get hygeine issues or your bite will get out of line. Easiest ( and cheapest) to fix it now.

Late to the thread as usual... but I have relevant experience here.

FGS PLEASE get it done! I had braces twice. Once at age 13 for 18 months - didn't work as they didn't pull the necessary teeth out. Oh yes, looked ok for a while, but then the teeth start and keep on moving as there just wasn't room for them, including into my 30s! Might look OK while your child is a teen, but trust me, by my early 30s, I DID have Austin Powers teeth.

And I am sorry, but teeth are important. They don't have to be white shiny perfect US sitcom teeth, but it's definitely quite nice to have straightish teeth if you can afford it or can get it done on the nhs.

For the second round in my 30s, I had 4 teeth removed, and had full metal train track braces for 2 years. Changed my life! Finally I have straight teeth that don't move. And if you'd seen the before photos, you'd see it was a massive improvement.

I think you're being a leetle bit precious here. If someone is willing to treat your child for free, is a fully qualified orthodonist, and recommends teeth be pulled - please listen. My narrow jaw never had enough room for a full adult set of teeth, which is why the first, very expensive, treatment failed.

Trust me, braces at age 30+ really are the worst... I even had a lisp for months. Desperately wished the first chap had got it right, and I had got it all over with as a teen.

I had ten teeth taken out to prevent overcrowding, crossing teeth. I was a lot younger than 16 and coped with it ok. I'm really glad mow that I had it done. I was scared waiting for the appoinmtments, had three different sessions of it over three years. No pain during it apart from the injection. And afterwards no worse than when a tooth has come out.

OP, having teeth extracted is NOT traumatic, and your own attitude towards it might actually make your DS feel worse. I had a wisdom tooth extracted this year. It was my first ever extraction, and I was quite apprehensive - but it didn't hurt AT ALL. Like all such procedures, it was done und anaesthetic.

You are reacting as if this is just about attractive teeth. It's not - it's about preventing dental health problems in the future. You are not doing your DS a favour by insisting it's just about an American-style search for cosmetic perfection.

haven't read the whole thread but - have it done. Get him straws if he must have fizzy drinks, give him a cube of cheese to eat before them (it's the PH in the mouth that really matters), get him a mouthwash (get that anyway). Like you I wasn't happy about extraction but your child will have a much better smile and less problems later on. I really wish my parents had cared enough to get my teeth sorted when I was young.

I had 4 adult teeth and one baby tooth (was never going to come out as mouth was too crowded) removed before having braces. It was the best thing I had done - if they'd left all my teeth as they were I would never have been able to keep them clean etc and would probably have had to fork out £1000s by now for fillings, root canals, caps, crowns etc. As it is I'm 37 and have no fillings - now a part of that I'm sure is genetic luck but they're also dead easy to clean, no crevices for food to get stuck in, awkward bits to reach with a toothbrush etc. A quick and easy going over with a brush, quick floss which is very easy to do and I'm sorted.

I would imagine that an orthodontist makes far more money on private patients than NHS ones so I can't imagine they're taking on NHS cases to make cash...

I had 4 pre molars taken out when I was about 12. I had crooked, crowded teeth and it made room for them to be straightened. As a side effect, when my wisdom teeth came through, I didn't even notice, unlike lots of my friends who had problems.

Don't think of it as taking out 3 healthy teeth, think of it as protecting the remaining teeth from the problems that overcrowding can cause.

Get the work done. The NHS will only offer free treatment where there is a high-end need.

When your DC is 18 he will most likely no longer qualify. Will you be happy to hand that legacy on to him, when he can do nothing about it unless he has thousands of pounds to pay for it?

This really should be his decision now anyway, as he is nearly 16.

OP I am in this position too. My son has just had braces fitted and will need 2 extractions (also dropped into the conversation casually by the orthodontist). At first I was horrified re the extractions - having spent all his young life stressing how important it is to look after his teeth and clean them properly and then hear casually that 2 of these healthy, well looked after teeth "will have to come out". But having talked to others who have had this done, they have no regrets at all. My son's teeth are overcrowded though, appearance-wise, not too bad but there are other issues like 'traumatic overbite' - I had to go away afterwards and Google half the things the orthodontist said . Upshot is we are going ahead (my son, incidentally, is fairly laid back about it - I am the over-anxious one).

You seem determined to view any exhortations to go ahead as being about appearances. Ignoring the potential health implications of wonky teeth (and the fact that despite being only slightly wonky now, they may get worse as he matures) is making you seem a bit dismissive of many people's bad experiences of dodgy teeth.

You are placing too much emphasis on appearance in your own argument IMO. I am sure he looks nothing like Austin Powers but that is not evidence that he doesn't genuinely need the work, is it?

As for saying they will be pulling out 'healthy teeth', surely the whole point is that his teeth won't stay healthy in later life without attention now.

Think about it: when he's a middle-aged and elderly man he could have a lot of trouble from teeth that are hard to clean. The implications are not just about looks or even pain and discomfort and expense - they extend to things like heart health as well.

Don't turn it into a reverse snobbery thing about looking deeper than appearances; that is just a way of justifying the status quo to yourself and it is really beside the point.

Only read the Op.

When I was a teen, my Mum asked the dentist about me having a brace. Dentist told her they'd have to remove 4 teeth; two top, two lower. Mum said no way are you taking out healthy teeth. I was not involved in this conversation at all.

My teeth were quite crooked. My wisdom teeth all came through and my teeth are very crooked. Also, I can't bite through for instance, a bacon sandwich because my upper teeth don't meet the lower ones, on top of which they stick out at an angle (hard to describe).
Teeth become more crooked, sticky out etc as you age and are not attractive.

It's never stopped me smiling, but I hate that my teeth are wonky...they are though, very healthy and all present!
Think carefully about the fact that your Ds's teeth will probably look worse as he gets older and he may not thank you for not allowing them to be straightened. Of course, he may not thank you for having teeth taken out either...

Get it done! I spent years getting teased and taunted because my teeth were "sticky outy", it ruined part of my childhood. I then had orthodontic work to correct the problem, which involved removing 4 teeth. It improved my self confidence and therefore my whole outlook on life! Short term pain for long term gain, I say!

OP- this removal of healthy teeth makes me so cross!!! The bone underneath where the teeth was will shrink, making the whole jaw narrower and may result in crowding later anyway. My DS had a crowding problem when he was 12-13. His dentist fitted him with a gentle palate widening device, meaning that by the end all his teeth fitted nicely in his jaw. It was removable and painless, like a retainer but progressively widening the jaw over the course of 6 months. Could heartily recommend it. Also was not very expensive (about £130 for device and fitting, then £20/month for 12 months)

There are other ways than removal and train tracks!

Like these

I am having orthodontic treatment at present and my dentist - private not NHS - says he would only in very extreme cases remove teeth - he says they are the scaffolding for your faceand you need all of them to hold up cheeks etc and your plate should be made bigger rather than wiping teeth out.

So sticky out teeth may look worse as you get older but a sunken face will make you look even worse.

If you can afford it go to a private dentist that does orthodontics and see what he/she thinks.

How can you make the plate bigger? Surely your teeth are fixed into your jaw bone?

OP- this removal of healthy teeth makes me so cross!!! The bone underneath where the teeth was will shrink, making the whole jaw narrower and may result in crowding later anyway.

Absolute tripe. The teeth that are removed provide space for the alignment of other teeth and these move into the bony space preventing the resorption of bone. It is only when teeth are removed and not replaced that the "scaffolding" of the face is affected and allows the soft tissues to shrink. There are so many "experts" on this thread. I am a dentist and I have a number of postgrad qualifications however, I am not an orthodontist and would not give an opinion on whether the removal of teeth is necessary. There is a reason orthodontists have to train for so much longer, they don't just google stuff when people come in for a consultation.

Sorry, Grumps, just saying what our dentist told me when he was doing my son's orthodontics. He also said that any conventional dentist would have removed prob 4 teeth from my son's jaw at 12. He is now 18 and his top teeth are just fine- not Hollywood but no longer like a shark. I saw for myself that the gentle approach worked.

People pay thousands for dental treatment. I good set of teeth and a nice smile has HUGE implications for self-confidence. If it means taking a few teeth out then that's just what has to be done. Although you should ask him how he feels and speak about any alternatives the dentist may have.

Your son will also have to learn that he takes care of his teeth for as long as he has them and it won't have been a waste of time. Without permanent retainers teeth can easily move again, and even more so if hygiene is poor.

He's 16, cant he decide for himself?

Perhaps slightly repeating what many have said here but please do not let your own squeamishness be passed on to your son. Your comment "they want to pull out my baby's teeth! Sob!" was meant to be light-hearted I'm sure, but it's a bit worrying. First, he's not a baby, he's 16 - old enough to leave school, get married and have his own children. Second, tooth extraction is not in any way traumatic and by giving the impression that it is you are setting him up for a lot of worry about unnecessary things in the future. You've had (at least) two DC - childbirth must be a hell of a lot more traumatic but I bet you'd never say you wish you hadn't done it!

I had 8 teeth out when I was about 12 - a combination of some stubborn milk teeth and some adult ones, and I barely remember it. I had an upper removable plate for about 18 months and used to annoy the hell out of my classmates by playing with it. The thing I recall most clearly is my Mum's quiet insistence that it was Very Important Indeed to have the work done as I would hate being an adult with wonky teeth.My teeth now are lovely and straight and I love her for that. She herself ad not been so lucky, hers were all over the place and it was not an easy ride for her getting extensive work done in her fifities when she could finally afford it. I can tell you straight that plenty of girls will be put off by a man with wonky teeth - first impressions really do count.

Of course get a second opinion, that's only prudent, but please please don't let a disproportionate worry about extractions cloud the bigger picture. Is your DS's Dad around? What does he think? Be thankful your boy's not a wuss!

I had 3 healthy teeth out as a teenager for the same reason.

My top teeth stuck out and my jaw needed aligning with elastic bands. The bottom teeth were okish but one tooth was actually missing so they took the equivalent one out on the other side (and extracted the baby tooth) to even things up.

As a result I have straight teeth and an even bite. All paid for by the NHS. I am very grateful and I never missed my lost teeth (and I have no gaps).

I didn't have orthodontic work done as a teenager as my mother had qualms about it.

I hate my teeth and rarely smile in pictures, I also suffer from gum disease as the teeth have moved over the years and they are difficult to clean.

YABU.

Duchesse - The point of removing the teeth is so that there is room for the rest to be pulled back, so there presumably there would be any of the problems you described unless his treatment was stopped early. Thanks for the link though, it's good to know that there ARE alterntives!

Weejimmy - I don't see what's so worrying about wanting to protect my son from avoidable harm; just because he's taller than me now it doesn't mean that I'm not his mum anymore! I know that we need to back off gradually & let kids make their own mistakes as they get older but this is just a bit too big to for me to cross my fingers & hope for the best. I couldn't really compare dental work to childbirth (why do people do that?? 'You wouldn't have a root canal without anaesthetic so why give birth without it..?' Eh??). Giving birth is something you (hopefully) do by yourself, not something you have done to you. His dad is around, he's been staying with him for the last few days so it's been a good opportunity for me to stress out and panic think things over.

I have been very careful not to pass my squeamishness on to him, that wouldn't be fair. I've resigned myself to the fact that something needs to be done, I just want to be absolutely certain that the teeth need to come out & it's the right thing to do. Once they're out, there's no going back!

BTW, if it turns out that he does need to have the extractions, his step-dad will be taking him to the dentist - I don't think having his mother faint in the corner would make the experience any easier for him