to be horrified at the idea of my DS having 3 healthy teeth ripped out in the name of 'perfection'?

[keithlemonsbackdoors]

My son (nearly 16) has been offered orthodontic treatment on the NHS. Ay the first appointment they talked up how great his teeth would look after treatment, how he could have whatever colour braces he wants etc etc. No mention of pulling out teeth.

At the second appointment, after taking inpressions, x-rays etc, the orthodontist says casually (paraphrasing slightly) 'So if you can just make an appointment to have these 3 teeth extracted, thank you, lovely, bub-bye.'

Maybe I'm a bit, I don't know, overprotective? Squeamish? Mental?? But every time I think of taking him to a dentist & allowing him to go at his mouth with a pair of pliers I just want to cry. The pain, the blood, the massive gaps until his teeth are fixed... I actually cannot bear it. If he was in pain, or had massive issues about how his teeth look then I could probably get my head around it.

Truth is, he's never been THAT bothered about hs teeth (they're a bit sticky-outy - technical term I believe - because he sucked his thumb for years & a bit wonky it the bottom. When you look you can see they're not straight but you wouldn't think 'bloody hell, look at the state of his teeth!' to look at him.) but having a brace has become a bit of a fashion statement among his friends. I think he wants the brace more than he wants perfect teeth (although he's been brainwashed into thinking he NEEDS straight teeth by the orthodontist).

He also has ADD & has trouble seeing the big picture or thinking ahead. I don't think he really gets that it's a 4 year commitment, or that he will have to give up drinking coke, go to appointments every 6 wks etc. I don't really think it's fair to say no, because it's his choice to make. Also, it's now or never; we couldn't afford to have this done privately.

So am I being unreasonable in thinking I'll probably try to talk him out of it until he (hopefully) forgets about the idea?

You are being very unreasonable. They are not trying to make his teeth perfect, they are trying to make them healthy. You might not be bothered by his teeth bunching and sticking out, but he will be when he starts geting crap stuck in them and getting cavities. It isn't about you it is about your son having his teeth taken care of. He will be stuck with them for the next 60 years I suspect he will want then in good condition. I am really about this OP.

i had 4 teeth extracted when i was a child, and wore a brace for 2 years. My teeth were pushed far too far back making my smile resemble that of a Rat. I am now in the process of paying £2500 to correct this and will have to have a fekkin implant to replace one of the ones that was extracted. just make sure that it is essential he has them removed. My orthodontist said he is limited now due the removal of those molars

I had awful experiences with orthodontists as a teen (there was a string of them getting fired for performing unnecessary procedures in order to defraud the NHS, including my poor friend who ended up having to wear braces for 10 years to correct the damage) so I would get a second (and third!) opinion - via private sources if necessary, just to be sure that this really is necessary.

However, your son sounds quite similar to me. My first wisdom tooth is just peeking through now and I will need more teeth out - check he has wisdom teeth too, my dentist told me not everyone does.

He also said that the removal of molars was a dated practice, don't know how true that is.

He's not 16 yet.

A 'perfect' set of beautiful teeth is a luxury, not a neccessity Thank you.

I am a bit concerned about the prospect of him finding it harder to keep wonky teeth clean in future...

Arghh, shopping's arrived, baby's awake, gotta run!

He must need it doing, you practically have to have teeth poking out of your nose holes to get a brace on the NHS.

u can ask ur orthodontist where your DS is on IOTN. that is an index which shows wat the need is for braces. there is a dental health and an aesthetic component to this scale. so function, health and looks are taken into account.

braces are a big commitment but if u sit down with ur DS and explain to him and make sure that he understands it he can decide for himself. its not only fizzy drinks but also sticky food and hard food he wont b able to eat. cleaning teeth is even more important (and difficult) with braces
also he had to do very thorough oral hygiene measures.
ofcourse the advantages afterwards also need to be discussed. it will be much easier if he is self motivated

i myself prefer non extraction orthodontics wherever possible but of course sometimes needs must.
(let me know if u got wat i said i need to practice speaking in non-jargon thanks.)

YABU
I had four teeth out before braces and I never looked after my teeth that well - mine are not stained or damaged and the gaps have disappeared. In fact I wish they had taken out more as overcrowding moved my bottom teeth back together when my wisdom teeth came through. I hate my wonky bottom teeth.
My advice - see if you can have the wisdom teeth extracted first then go for it
he may regret it massively later on if he doesn't do it now.

I would definitely go ahead with it. I have good teeth, thanks to orthodontics in my teens. DH doesn't thanks to a couple of RTAs. Having good teeth and a nice smile really does help with confidence, and if your son has problems please don't add to them by not letting him get this teeth done when it's free. Two years may seem a long time, but he will be so grateful when the braces come off. The retainer will probably only have to be worn at night, not all the time.

I had a lot of orthodontic work done (thanks NHS) between the ages of 11-15. This involved removing 4 healthy teeth, as my jaw was so small that they were already starting to overlap each other. And when teeth overlap and are overcrowded, it's more difficult to clean them properly.

I'm really grateful to my parents for making sure I got my teeth sorted (even tho it was a bit horrible at the time). I've had no probs with my teeth since.

also sometimes u need permanent or long term retention rather than the said 2 yrs. a lot of times wen function is not being badly affected it depends on wat the individual (or peers) feels about their appearance

It's not purely cosmetic.

I have a crowded mouth, which wasn't dealt with properly when I was younger. I now have a tooth erupting from the floor of my mouth which ulcerates my tongue from time to time and is nigh on impossible to keep properly clean, and my wisdom teeth have caused me bother off and on for years now. And no, they don't look good either. I've already needed fillings in 3 of my adult teeth (I'm 30) because there are areas which I simply can't clean despite the dentist and hygienist both commending me on my level of dental hygiene.

DS, at the age of 4, already has crowded teeth and we know he will require orthodontic work in the future. And he will have it, provided he consents to it. The cosmetic issues are insignificant.

I would get it done if the dentist thinks it needs doing. I've had two teeth out as an adult (upper wisdom teeth in fact) and there was no pain at all, and no bleeding after the first minute or so post extraction. It was over in literally seconds and was just a complete non-issue. Was very slightly tender for a day or two afterwards if I poked the area with my tongue, but not even enough to describe as 'pain'.

I can understand you being horrified by the idea of it (I was too, it sounds horrible when you think about it, and I was expecting a nightmare experience after all I'd heard about wisdom tooth extractions) but in reality it was absolutely fine and I felt a bit silly for making such a fuss beforehand.

If you're not sure if/why it needs doing, can you make an appointment to discuss that before making a decision?

Shouldn't this be HIS decision? AFter all he is the one who will be living with wonky teeth and while he may not be bothered now, he may well regret it (or blame you!) when he is 20 and all his friends have tombstone perfect teeth!

My DD1 has ADD, she wasn't sure whether it was 'worth the hassle' 3 years down the line with beautiful teeth she is glad she did..!

Something about the OP really worries me:

"they want to PULL OUT MY CHILD'S TEETH!! sob"

I know that you don't want your child going through anything traumatic. But you really need to deal with your protectiveness and give any advice to your son based on:

• reason / medical advice (of course, get that 2nd opinion if you want)
• financial impacts
• emotional impacts
• common sense / practicalities

Honestly, I cannot comprehend any parent who would advise their child against having advised medical/dental work because they don't like the thought of something being done to their child.

You need to snap out of it, for the sake of your son's dental health.

He will probably follow any advice you give him on this, and you need to advise him with a clear head - not one filled with emotional crap just because you're squeamish about what you want done to him or not.

I wasn't that bothered about my teeth at 16 either which were a bit gappy and sticky out. The dentist even told me I didn't need orthodontic treatment.
Fast forward 10 years and I ended up paying £3000 for private orthodontic treatment as they had got much worse the older I got and I was having difficulty eating and closing my mouth properly.
My advice? Get the treatment now while it's free, he might regret it later.

I had teeth taken out years ago to "make room" & in prep for a brace & was under the impression that this was bad practice & not really done any more.

Actually, OP, I don't want to insult you, but I think this is actually a very good example of "bad parenting but good intentions".

None of us like to see our children in pain or upset. But you're a parent - they trust us to give them advice which is good for them in the long term.

Not being able to cope with the idea of him being uncomfortable/etc isn't a good enough reason to ignore medical/dental advice.

My only worry is that they are asking him to have teeth removed which is the cheapo option whereas would it not be better (though more expensive for the NHS) to have a brace?

Would get a second opinion myself, just because I had about 5 adult teeth removed and it really weakened my teeth. I am now mostly paying for having the numerous fillings replaced that I had done at 15/16.

I had teeth taken out years ago to "make room" & in prep for a brace & was under the impression that this was bad practice & not really done any more.

My thoughts precisely.

Maybe he is more bothered about his teeth than you think. I was very glad to get braces after being called "buck teeth" for years but my parents didn't know I'd been teased about it, although they encouraged me to have it done.
Having a few teeth pulled out isn't the end of the world and if he doesn't have it done now, he may regret it later in life.

I really don't know why you would want to try to talk him out of it. YABU

You should definitely get a second opinion - we had 3 opinions ofr DD before we chose a treatment plan.

She had 4 teeth out in preparation for her brace and now has a permanent retainer at the bottom and a permanent nighttime retainer for the top.

Her teeth were not too bad but were going to get worse. You have to trust the opinion you're given - they are the experts and they've seen the hundereds of cases and they know what it'll look like without treatment.

BUT I would say you're wasting your time and money if he doesnt look after his teeth. Unless he can commit to good dental hygiene, I wouldnt bother.

My dentist explained that a major factor in correcting sticking out teeth and a large overbite is that during eating, if you can't get your teeth together properly, other teeth overcompensate and get all the wear, so in later life you may need a lot of crowns and veneers because the teeth are simply worn down. Plus can get all sorts of aches and pains due to the unequal pressure and misalignment of the jaws when chewing.

My DD (16) has just finished orthodontic treatment. Her mouth was really overcrowded, and she got NHS funding. As I understand it, there are really strict criteria now which must be fulfilled for the patient to be eligible for funding - it's not just a matter of the orthodontist saying so. Her OD said that removing teeth was much less done now than formerly, but still was necessary in some cases - my DD had 4 teeth out (very low stress), has had her appearance transformed, and is absolutely delighted.
I had similar though less severe issues myself, and had 4 teeth removed 30 years ago. I have only ever had one filling, over 25 years ago, and have excellent dental hygiene because my teeth are properly spaced. My teeth look fine, and I am sure removal was the best option in my case. By all means get the second opinion if it makes you feel better, but I would 100% recommend non-cosmetic orthodontics, and I would think the fact that the NHS is willing to pay in itself proves it's not just cosmetic for your DS.
The only thing that surprises me is that you say 3 teeth - surely it's usually an even number so the two halves of the jaw are symmetrical? usually 4, but sometimes 2 or 6?

I had a lot of orthodontic work to my teeth in my teens. I grew up in Australia where it is very common to have braces. Everyone I knew/know in the part of Australia I grew up in had their wisdom teeth removed before/in early stages of orthodontic work. (The orthodontist took x-rays to check if they were starting to form.) The wisdom teeth were extracted under general anaesthetic.

I would be asking the orthodontist (and the orthodontist you get the second opinion from - I can see from one of your posts that you are going to do this) whether removing his wisdom teeth would be a better idea than to the remove the teeth they are proposing to extract.

I would strongly recommend you allow the orthodontic work to take place now. One of my father's friends had to have braces at the age of 42 when he started getting major jaw problems from his wonky teeth. Sometimes it's not just about the teeth/mouth/appearance!