to be horrified at the idea of my DS having 3 healthy teeth ripped out in the name of 'perfection'?

[keithlemonsbackdoors]

My son (nearly 16) has been offered orthodontic treatment on the NHS. Ay the first appointment they talked up how great his teeth would look after treatment, how he could have whatever colour braces he wants etc etc. No mention of pulling out teeth.

At the second appointment, after taking inpressions, x-rays etc, the orthodontist says casually (paraphrasing slightly) 'So if you can just make an appointment to have these 3 teeth extracted, thank you, lovely, bub-bye.'

Maybe I'm a bit, I don't know, overprotective? Squeamish? Mental?? But every time I think of taking him to a dentist & allowing him to go at his mouth with a pair of pliers I just want to cry. The pain, the blood, the massive gaps until his teeth are fixed... I actually cannot bear it. If he was in pain, or had massive issues about how his teeth look then I could probably get my head around it.

Truth is, he's never been THAT bothered about hs teeth (they're a bit sticky-outy - technical term I believe - because he sucked his thumb for years & a bit wonky it the bottom. When you look you can see they're not straight but you wouldn't think 'bloody hell, look at the state of his teeth!' to look at him.) but having a brace has become a bit of a fashion statement among his friends. I think he wants the brace more than he wants perfect teeth (although he's been brainwashed into thinking he NEEDS straight teeth by the orthodontist).

He also has ADD & has trouble seeing the big picture or thinking ahead. I don't think he really gets that it's a 4 year commitment, or that he will have to give up drinking coke, go to appointments every 6 wks etc. I don't really think it's fair to say no, because it's his choice to make. Also, it's now or never; we couldn't afford to have this done privately.

So am I being unreasonable in thinking I'll probably try to talk him out of it until he (hopefully) forgets about the idea?

haven't read all of this but DD2 has just had her traintracks removed after two years (she is 18 now) and her teeth look fine, tons better than when she started. She had teeth removed but not "ripped out" - they were removed quickly under anasthetic and she was fine. She has existed, it seems, on fizzy drinks, chocolate and even chewing gum to no ill effect. worst bit is the pain each time the braces are tightened but it wears off.
didn't cost a penny and DD has decent teeth now so I think if your DS wants to do it, then let him do it. He has to spend the rest of his life with his teeth, so if you can get help for him now then why not?

Bit too much drama ? the pain, the blood? It's just 4 teeth and he'll be over it in 24 hours at the most. Removing crowded teeth is not just for cosmetic purposes ? a crooked bite can cause all sorts of problems with the head and neck. I should have thought he's quite old enough to make up his own mind. You're going to have let him grow up eventually.

I have just had a weeks holiday from work, when I handed in my time sheet ( I'm paid hourly) I claimed 25 hours hol pay, but my employer won't pay it as I have not accrued the holiday hours yet as I have only been with the company for 5 month, I have had some of my other holiday hours paid previously, so I know I will get it eventually, but surely its not reasonable to do this.This isn't just because I'm new its how everyone is paid. Basically if I want to take 2 weeks hols say next Jan when our holidays are calculated from I wouldn't get paid until I had accrued the hours a few months on.This seems a very odd system, I certainly can't afford time off with no pay, any one got any info as to wether this is legal practice?

Get it done asap! I was offered braces by the NHS just after my 18th birthday. I couldn't have them done because I coudldn't afford it. My brother was offered the same thing (we have the same wonky teeth) aged 13 and his teeth are fine now. Mine are all over the place and difficult to clean properly. I'm not that bothered about how they look, but over-crowded wonky teeth affect you in other ways. My wisdom teeth are coming through now and making it even worse. If I'd been offered treatment before I was 18, I'd have bitten their hand off (pun intended)!

tootyflooty?

I think you're on the wrong thread !

Anyway OP I had four teeth out for braces, it's really common to have too many teeth for the jaw size.

I dread to think how bad my teeth would have been without this as even now they are still slightly crowded.

Go ahead and get it done, especially as it's free! Braces cost thousands you know.

We all have wonky teeth in my family. IO had 4 out as a child to reduce overcrowiding and it worked to a certain extent, didn't have a brace but did need one crowned to look straight later. DH had a family that didn't bother about his "David Bowie" style large sloping in canine teeth. He finds it very difficult to keep his teeth properly clean as theyare so crowded andhis dentist says his two front teeth will eventually fall out because of the pressure on them - too late for a brace now and they are quite wobbly already. DS1 and DS2 have had braces and have nice even teeth - well worth it as so expensive if they do it later on.

Get it done - you'll be amazed at the results. I have DS1 who refused to have his done and his teeth are shockingly misaligned today, really really bad. DS2 had it done (1 tooth out) and has a fabulous smile.

YANBU to be horrified at the thought, but YABU if you oppose it.

I have had three wisdom teeth taken out. My brother had an "ingrown" (sideways) incisor taken out in a long operation. These things happen.

I'd strongly recommend he gets it done.

I had braces in my teens (age 14ish) and after a while couldn't be bothered with the 'hassle', so asked my mum if I could have them taken off. This I did and a few years later when I realised I actually cared about my teeth I had to go back through the whole procedure again. I had braces while I was at uni and believe me it's even less fun having braces aged 20/21 than it is in your mid teens.

Btw I didn't have 'awful' teeth I had one tooth that was out of alignment and a bit of crowding, however I was well aware I had a wonky smile and it made me really self conscious. It helped my self esteem to be able to smile more freely.

Extractions shouldn't be problematic I had several, the anaesthetic injection was always the most painful bit.

I think you're being far too precious about this.
Straight teeth when he's an adult will be much easier to take care of, and extractions aren't so dramatic as you're suggesting, honestly. My daughters have both had teeth out in advance of braces - needle hurts a bit, tooth comes out, sit around and eat ice cream for a bit, be fine.

Nothing to do with the thread but Malcontentinthemiddle I love your name!

Why thank you! .

OP ask the original orthodontist if the treatment can be done on a non extraction basis but accept that he may be simply too crowded to do this.

If he is eligible for NHS orthodontics he will score highly on the IOTN (index of treatment needs) so there is no way the orthodontist will be doing this as a money spinner.

Do not underestimate the impact of a nice smile is can do wonders for your confidence as well as making it easier to keep teeth clean so hopefully helping to reduce decay and gum disease. Privately once he is over 18 orthodontics costs thousands.

I think it's excellent that your son is keen to have braces not all teenagers are so positive. Having peers with them too will help his motivation whilst treatment goes on.

I had the plate type of braces - maybe that's because although my teeth were crowded, they didn't stick out. One of my front top teeth grew in pushed back into my jaw, as did one of my bottom teeth, and they were very cramped and overlapped a bit. Hence the work to move the teeth further apart rather than pull them back in.

However, my baby teeth stuck around stubbornly and the left top canine refused to fall out, despite X rays showing that the adult was waiting above it. The orthodontist said he thought that when that one finally fell out, the adult tooth would be very squint and I would need train tracks then. Cue multiple appointments where he would go no, that tooth hasn't fallen out yet. Aged 16, I thought enough was enough and said I would call him when it did. It didn't fall out until I was 25. My dentist (my uncle!) referred me to an NHS orthodontist who looked at it and said she didn't think it would grow in on its own, and it would be very squint and I would need train tracks plus a chain on that tooth to bring it down. In the course of the appointment she also looked at my bottom teeth and suggested taking out a molar there to make them line up a bit better. I said there was nothing wrong with the tooth in question and why didn't she take out one of my front bottom teeth instead, if a tooth had to go, as it has had a root canal and is therefore weaker. She said that it would mean that my teeth wouldn't be symmetrical, although they would be straight. She also got a ruler and demonstrated how the gap between my front top teeth isn't quite in line with the gap between my bottom front teeth - by about a mm. I think orthodontists are the only people who are actually going to notice something like that!

I did ask her to put me on the 6 month waiting list, thinking I could decide when my appointment actually happened, but I never did get one. In the meantime, my adult canine grew in on its own and it isn't very squint, so I decided not to bother asking to be re-referred. I don't really regret it - I am too vain for train tracks at 27! Maybe one day I will be able to afford the invisible behind-the-teeth kind and then I'll get them sorted.

I know this has been a very long post, but really, OP, I would get your son's teeth sorted now while he's still happy to have it done and it's free, and if the orthodontist says he needs teeth out, then ask about the plate version. In the end, though, I think you have to accept the orthodontist's opinion.

I almost want to put a smiley photo of my (quite frankly gorgeous) DS on here so that you could see what I'm talking about - I expect you are imagining Austin Powers' younger brother! I accept that he must be above a certain criteria to get the treatment on the NHS, but I'm pretty sure only just over it; the dentist that referred him wasn't sure either way. Some of the stories on here have just reinforced the fact that his teeth could be an awful lot worse.

I would also like to add that I'm very grateful to not have to pay, unlike 'most people' - can't remember who said that, but thanks for that bit of snobbery. I'm still not going to put him through unnecessary pain just because it's free though. The teeth would be extracted in two goes, not all at once, so if he was traumatised on the first visit I'd have to force him to go back...

It's interesting that some people have reacted as if I was about to refuse to allow my son to have lifesaving surgery - just goes to show how much importance society places upon good teeth! I didn't realise that we'd caught up with the US on that front, but if that's the way it is I don't want to burden him with dodgy teeth.

With any luck, I will be speaking to the orthodontist or treatment co-ordinator (?) on Monday (got the impression that not many people query proposed treatment!). Will be a couple of weeks before I can get a second opinion.

really OP, it is not that traumatic.Think you are making a bit of a mountain out of a molehill. It's only teeth FFS. I thought DD was gorgeous before treatment and would still think she was if she hadn't had it done. But she is ecstatic at the end result, even though she had the braces removed early as she is off to spend a gap year in Spain and we weren't sure about the lcoal dentist. She is thrilled and feels great - that's what matters. She would always be beautiful to me, wonky teeth or not, but it's what she wants that counts.
I really hope your DS doesn't have any more serious procedures to contend with in life, if the loss of a few teeth causes you this much stress!

I was (I am told) an attractive girl before having my braces.

However,at 25 I went to my dentist asking for a set of veneers because I had become fixated on the imperfection of my slightly crossed over front tooth. He persuaded me to go for braces as the better option. I am glad I did!

I had my four teeth out in two goes - honestly it is really not that painful. You feel a bit numb for a while and then a very mild pain for a short time afterwards.

Also teeth which are not straight are more difficult to clean and any misalignment now is likely to become more pronounced later on.

My ds1 had extreme ortho problems - he had 7 healthy teeth removed and had to go to manchester dental hospital for his extensive treatment its taken almost 5 years from start to finish for my ds to get teeth hes not embarassed about.

The NHS dont do ortho work unless its neccesary.

vanfurgsten and jaspers, thanks for replies, it helps me figure out GS mouth. this is my third attempt to write this and my replies are getting shorter and less interesting!

His teeth may not look too bad now but he's only 16. They will change a lot, they are moving still, hence a brace works. I wish I'd got a brace when advised to (my mum just stopped taking us to the dentist) and have horribly crooked teeth now.

@Keithlemonsbackdoors regarding retainers. If the treatment goes ahead make sure you budget for a replacement retainer or two. They can and do break and if you stop wearing one too early the teeth start to migrate back to where they were, making it all for nothing. That is what happened to me when I was a teenager. When the braces came off my teeth were "perfect" but then the retainer snapped and my mum couldn't afford a new one. My teeth are now as wonky as ever and I have gaps too.

I had four molars out (in two sessions) when I was 13. No big deal. I was not traumatized (although it was uncomfortable). Think of it as functional versus aesthetic. Straight, uncrowded teeth are so much easier to keep clean and take care of than crooked, crowded ones. Lots of children have to undergo operations and so on so that they may enjoy a better quality of life.

Just to balance he thread.

I have wonky teeth, and I still feel I'm an attractive woman. Bit of a rough time with wisdom teeth for a year or two, but nothing severe or probably even on a par with braces/ teeth out. I am missing eye teeth and one canine naturally, and still have a baby canine. Nobody recoils in horror when I smile.

I've never had a filling or any dental work, just the frequent poke around to check all is well. My overbite actually straightened a bit once wisdom teeth came and my teeth haven't really changed since they arrived. Cleaning could be easier, but I know no different. Never had more than a few min with a dentist, certainly nothing like a chat. I was taken as a child/ teenager so by the time I took myself (18) I was used to my teeth and it was expensive.

If he wants to I wouldn't discourage him, but I just wanted to provide an alternative to the horror stories should you decide to not go ahead. Sometimes I wish I'd had braces, in the same way I'd want perfection for any body part but it's not a big impact on my life.

You sound as if being bothered about good teeth is purely about appearances - I have overcrowded bottom teeth. Today I had a scale and polish, which I have every three months because the dentist admits I cannot clean the point at which the major crowding is with either toothbrush or floss. It is very painful to have the scaling done. I am very conscious of how my teeth look (one of the front bottom teeth is turned round partially, and the teeth to the side lean) and try not to laugh with my mouth too open. But mainly I worry about trapped food, I worry about decay, I worry about the problems I have had with my gums there.

My wisdom teeth didn't come through properly either - I endured months of pain as my impacted wisdom teeth pushed into my other teeth, when I saw the x-rays they were at right angles to the teeth next to them, there was no room for them.

I wish someone had offered treatment to deal with my less than physically perfect teeth when I was a teenager. Now I live with embarrassment over my teeth and worry about gum disease and decay. For your son's sake, I'd say get a second opinion, but please don't think this is all about appearances.