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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be horrified at the idea of my DS having 3 healthy teeth ripped out in the name of 'perfection'?

179 replies

keithlemonsbackdoors · 25/08/2011 15:24

My son (nearly 16) has been offered orthodontic treatment on the NHS. Ay the first appointment they talked up how great his teeth would look after treatment, how he could have whatever colour braces he wants etc etc. No mention of pulling out teeth.

At the second appointment, after taking inpressions, x-rays etc, the orthodontist says casually (paraphrasing slightly) 'So if you can just make an appointment to have these 3 teeth extracted, thank you, lovely, bub-bye.'

Maybe I'm a bit, I don't know, overprotective? Squeamish? Mental?? But every time I think of taking him to a dentist & allowing him to go at his mouth with a pair of pliers I just want to cry. The pain, the blood, the massive gaps until his teeth are fixed... I actually cannot bear it. If he was in pain, or had massive issues about how his teeth look then I could probably get my head around it.

Truth is, he's never been THAT bothered about hs teeth (they're a bit sticky-outy - technical term I believe - because he sucked his thumb for years & a bit wonky it the bottom. When you look you can see they're not straight but you wouldn't think 'bloody hell, look at the state of his teeth!' to look at him.) but having a brace has become a bit of a fashion statement among his friends. I think he wants the brace more than he wants perfect teeth (although he's been brainwashed into thinking he NEEDS straight teeth by the orthodontist).

He also has ADD & has trouble seeing the big picture or thinking ahead. I don't think he really gets that it's a 4 year commitment, or that he will have to give up drinking coke, go to appointments every 6 wks etc. I don't really think it's fair to say no, because it's his choice to make. Also, it's now or never; we couldn't afford to have this done privately.

So am I being unreasonable in thinking I'll probably try to talk him out of it until he (hopefully) forgets about the idea?

OP posts:
HerRoyalNotness · 25/08/2011 19:39

I've only read a few posts.

I had 2 uppers out for braces and wisdom teeth down as an adult pushed one front tooth over the other. I have also had my wisdom teeth out (3 over the last 8mths with lots of pain and infections). as I have 2 less on top already, a lower molar doesn't have a tooth above so I've been told this will eventually float up, more drama.

Can a dentist tell me, why don't they take out the wisdom teeth now, that would create space surely without storing up more problems in the future?

DancesWithWolefCubs · 25/08/2011 19:48

NHS rules have tightened up massively since we were teenagers. Orthodontists have to justify giving treatment on the NHS now, it's not a money spinner any more.

We can't judge today's treatments and methods on what were used in the past. Get his teeth done.

discrete · 25/08/2011 19:55

My parents felt as you do, so my sister and I had braces but not extractions.

Now we are adults we both wish they had done it. Mine are not too bad, a bit crooked at the bottom which has caused problems but not major ones (hard to clean though) but my sister has had a complete nightmare.

She eventually went back and had one tooth taken out and a further two years of braces in her thirties, and is now looking to have another out and more braces in her forties!

Get it done as soon as possible, he will thank you in time.

ginmakesitallok · 25/08/2011 20:02

My first orthodontist tole my Mum I'd have to have my bottom jaw broken and pulled forward to correct my overbite Shock Thank god he retired before he had a chance to organise it. I wore braces and had one extraction. Treatment lasted years - from about 14 until about 19. My teeth still aren't perfect (bottom ones a bit crowded) but I am so grateful I had the work done when I was younger. (Still have dreams about taking out my retainer in inappropriate places though!)

HansieMom · 25/08/2011 20:05

I have two adult DS. DS1 had preventative dentistry done starting at age 6. Teeth were pulled early to make room. His teeth are beautiful without braces. the orthodontist said we could put on full braces for just a slight bit of improvement and if it was his kid he would not do it. DS2 also had consultation as young child and teeth removed early. He had crowded teeth and orthodontist pulled 4 permanent ones to make room. his teeth were about three years late, he was wearing braces into college. They were painful after adjustments. I recall him saying he did not think I realized how painful that was. I have great teeth. DH are crooked on bottom and poorly done orthodonture on top. He would not wear retainer so bottom teeth got crooked. his teeth got worse as he aged. anyway our sons teeth look great but it took years of orthodonture consultation and work to get there.

Suncottage · 25/08/2011 20:17

I am totally appalled by the posts on this thread. I really cannot believe what I am reading Shock

I am an orthodontist.

Without seeing your child I cannot diagnose but I am shocked that you might take their opinion.

FFS sake get another opinion if you are worried and look into widening the palate before extraction of teeth.

Look at Princess Anne for a good example of bad orthodontics. She had 'the best that money can buy'.

Mumsnet at its worst.

mummymccar · 25/08/2011 20:18

I saw an orthodontist from age 9 because my teeth were overcrowded. I can only speak for myself but I know that my teeth actually hurt before treatment because of how the gum was pulled. I didn't have any teeth removed on the bottom row because my mum refused to allow it - when I finally finished my treatment at 15 my bottom row were (and are) still crooked despite years of retainers and braces because the teeth just had nowhere else to go. It hurt ALOT too because they were being pushed into positions that they couldn't possibly get into. I'd have them removed. I wish my mum had agreed to mine being removed. If the dentist says he needs it done, then he needs it done.

mummymccar · 25/08/2011 20:20

X post there, I should also say in light of what Suncottage has said that I'm not an expert and can only comment on my own case. If you want a second opinion then you should get it (missed that bit of the thread).

ddubsgirl · 25/08/2011 20:21

my eldest is having 2 teeth out in 2 weeks and braces fitted end of sept,he had lovely teeth until some little shit in junior school hit him in the face and knocked his front tooth forward :( have had to wait for all his adult teeth to come through and then a 6 month wait just to get seen seen and 6 weeks wait to have the teeth out.

exoticfruits · 25/08/2011 20:23

I said right from my first post-get a second opinion if you are not happy.I had every faith in our orthodontist, who explained it all and the options. He was very professional throughout and did a wonderful job. If you don't feel like that don't go ahead.

fiorentina · 25/08/2011 20:30

It was recommended i had several teeth extracted at a similar age to tour son, like you my mother wasn't happy with this idea an got a second opinion. In the end they paid a considerable amount privately so that I dint have teeth removed but they used different braces instead. I'm pleased they did, my teeth look fine now and were awful before, very wonky and goofy front teeth.

deste · 25/08/2011 20:31

My DD had very crooked teeth and had 8 out. She knew it had to be done because of the career she wanted but also because they looked awful.

Winetimeisfinetime · 25/08/2011 20:33

Definitely have a chat about going ahead without the teeth being removed - it may be possible to get a good result without losing teeth.

My ds had a brace at 16 on the NHS and was told he needed 2 teeth out. I asked if it was possible to preserve the teeth and our dentist said she was happy to leave them but we had to accept that the treatment might not be as successful and could take longer. We agreed to this on the understanding that it might be neccessary to remove the teeth further down the line but at least we would know then that there was no alternative.

Like your ds, my ds wasn't worried about perfection but wanted the protrusion of his teeth lessening. In the end the brace was on for less time than expected - less than a year and he now has nigh on perfect teeth without losing any. My dentust said it makes it easier if they remove teeth and they are more confident of a good result but were happy to leave them as long as we understood the risks.

TalkinPeace2 · 25/08/2011 20:33

Suncottage
please go back under your rock
I was treated by the same orthodontist as Princess Anne
Her dental problems have NO RELATION to what is done today.
The work that was done on me - as supervised by Dr Moss at UCH - was the very early stages of moving teeth within the jaw. They were not brave enough with her. They were braver with me.
Now, good orthodontists know that early braces supported by accurate extractions save patients from a lifetime of expensive caps, crowns and fillings.
OP
There is no need for your DS to ever fear a dentist once he has good teeth and a gorgeous smile - think of the wedding photos and be brave.

MrsKwazii · 25/08/2011 20:45

Suncottage Most of us are only giving our opinion based on our own experiences. As a qualified orthodontist, presumably you wouldn't go down the road that the OP's orthodontist is suggesting.

Rather than getting snitty, perhaps it would be more useful to give the OP some advice about what to do next - what are the alternatives and how should she ask about them? Can she get a second opinion and how should she go about it?

Suncottage · 25/08/2011 20:46

Talkin

Glad you had a better experience. I would be interested to have a look as you are such an expert.

Why does a patient with crooked teeth have to have 'caps', 'crowns' and 'fillings'? My patients have 'fillings' due to poor dental hygiene.

Please explain the difference between 'cap' and 'crowns'.

I avoid extractions at all costs. There are simpler ways of correcting overcrowding.

Suncottage · 25/08/2011 20:57

MrsKwazi

Good point. I was getting snippy and I aplologise but I get so angry when healthy teeth are extracted needlessly.

Ok - I was 12 when my Mum took me to a orthodontist to have my teeth 'straightened'. He sent me away to have 4 perfectly healthy premolars extracted. I said no.

Years later I had an OPG (full mouth xray) taken which showed I had only one wisdom tooth. The dentist woukd have aged me by five years had he removed my premolars.

I had one wisdom tooth to 'fill' the gaps. He never looked at that aspect.

This is why I look at every angle and widen the jaw to fit the teeth rather than remove healthy teeth to 'correct' the crowding.

Fontsnob · 25/08/2011 21:16

Ah, suncottage...question...does the fact that all my wisdom teeth are gone (or about to be gone) mean that I will get gappier teeth. :-(

whackamole · 25/08/2011 21:16

I had four adult teeth removed at age 13 so I could have a brace. The holes closed almost immediately as I had the braces, and although they did hurt I am so glad I had it done.

I don't have perfect teeth by any stretch of the imagination but at least they are not overcrowded and can be cleaned easily. Also, I had a 'double' row of teeth as they were so overcrowded.

So YABU I would have it done again in a heartbeat.

(Also, although you may not want to share this, I didn't stop drinking coke or anything else, I just cleaned my teeth really really well afterward. Didn't get any staining. And I am 28 and my wisdom teeth still haven't come through yet!)

GalaxyWeaver · 25/08/2011 21:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MissBetsyTrotwood · 25/08/2011 21:25

I had none out and what were rather sweet, kooky, slightly crooked teeth have become more and more goofy as I've got older. I wish my mum had made me have them out so the dentistry could have had a chance to work properly.

JoInScotland · 25/08/2011 21:30

I had braces for 2 years, starting at age 13. My teeth were in such a state - I had every single appliance they made back then, including headgear in order to bring my full 1cm overbite back into line - and a prescription for codeine to go along with it. I had to have 4 baby teeth pulled because my baby teeth didn't fall out and my brother was tired of trying to pull teeth that weren't loose (and getting bitten!)

However, I could envision how at difference it would make. My teeth did not mesh properly, so I couldn't chew food properly. I had to eat soggy cereal, no bread crusts, etc. I did everything the orthodontist asked with bells on and I got the braces off in 2 years not 3, therefore saving the state money I suppose. I wore the headgear at night. There was no way I was going to let any of my friend see THAT device.

I also had my wisdom teeth out at 18 - this is seen as routine in the US or was 20 years ago. It is just something that people have done, just as tonsils were taken out in my mother's day. However, few people have room for wisdom teeth and it just crowds the mouth (or so I have heard).

I now have a "Hollywood" smile and get comments on that I must have had my teeth done for cosmetic reasons. If only they knew....

princessglitter · 25/08/2011 21:33

Please get it done. My mum didn't as my teeth weren't too bad at the time.

In my late teens/early twenties they moved more and more and I hated them so much I spent 2K on a brace at 25.

It was horrible wearing a brace at that age and it took 3 years! I had 4 teeth removed and barely remember it - but I love my straight teeth now.

jalopy · 25/08/2011 21:38

My ds has been under the care of both a dentist and orthodontist for several years now. He has disproportionately large teeth and a tiny jaw which led to severe overcrowding. He had to have 8 milk teeth extracted (over a period of time) and a further 4 adult teeth removed before they fitted his brace. He would have had terrible problems if they had been left.

Letz · 25/08/2011 21:49

FGS don't be a fool. Getting braces was the best thing that ever happened to me. Are you jealous that his teeth will be straight? Are your teeth ugly and wonky? It's so weird that you are turning down free, recommended health care for your own child.