to loathe this sense of entitlement we hear/read/see everyday

[scuzy]

the idea of some taxes is to pay into a pool for those in genuine need of some kind of benefits. but i am sick to death of people who feel that just because they paid tax for a certain amount of years they can now claim benefits just because they say "its their money". these people are making fraudulent claims but its justified to them because they have paid into the pot so to speak and now its their turn to give up working and relax.

if i hear "i am entitled to ..." one more time i'll smack someone!

we have become a nation of "entitlers".

even my own family ask why do i work x amount of hours when i coudl claim this that and the other. "you are entitled to you know"! er .... no i'm not.

just don't spend it on ketchup

"You steal taxpayers' money - I'm a taxpayer."

This does not make it your money any more than it makes your wages your employer's money. I still cannot understand why seeing 'your' tax in this way is any different from the people the OP is talking about who feel that they are getting back what they've paid in.

Coco, "You wonder why benefit claimants have such a bed rep." implies that you are talking about benefit claimants and not benefit fraudsters; something which you berated others for doing

I'm not saying for one second reform isn't needed.
I'll say again. Why is the benefit with the lowest rate of fraud being reviewed AT MASSIVE EXPENSE before the benefits that have higher fraud rates?

Oh bugger, we are out of ketchup, actually.

Better start saving up then, Glitter

oh, and to be a pedant blue, you are wrongly using the word elision.it means to miss or slur the initial or final sound in a word.

Glitter no I would not like to do your job. I worked in the NHS for a while visiting childrens in their homes that had severe problems. It was just awful and soul destroying so you have my full respect. I admit I did not stay too long it takes a strong person to keep doing that job.

It was quite a haunting job.

However..... I do not think people have issues with carers- they have issues with people who are capable of working.

You are not them; you are seperate. You should see yourself as different entity entirely.

Would you not like to receive more help? Yes? The best way would be to stop fraud so we increase the help for people in your position.

Agreed.
Shame they're looking at the low fraud benefits first though.
More cost effective would be to target the benefits with high fraud wouldn't it?

And I'll tell you this for nothing too, new offices are being set up to do all this... at vast expense.

Indeed glitterz, would yield vastly more income than the "benefit" cheaters.

Vodafone, anyone?

Tethers- come off it, its quite well known a majority of the UK are not keen on benefits and Im saying this will not help perceptions of claimants.

Me- I support them for people who need them. I would use them should I ever need too and am glad their is a safety net.

What I do not support is fraud which is quite a different matter- Im quite shocked anyone does.

It's not just tax evasion, although clamping down on that would be good.
Look at the DWP's own statistics, find the benefits that have the highest rates of fraud and deal with them first.

Too sensible that one though.

Coco its not an extreme example. Its one that has been used on MNs.

Even if it were 50k please do not tell me that people are worse off than if they were on 15k. Its simply not true. Not in the short term, not in the long term.

They might think they are, encouraged by torrid tales of single mums living in mansions and pulling in 3000 a week. But they are not.

Before my life hit the crapper me and OH were earning about 50k between us, two kids, central London, before anyone got WTC, TC etc. Of course we were better off then and we had a future (well we thought we did but thats a different thread).

That is just the kind of 'sense of entitlement' I abhore. People who have enough, more than enough, but its just not quite enough for them. They have a pocket full of sweeties but they have just seen little Johnnies lollipop and now they want that too.

Even if it means being disabled so they can get their 'free car'

Go out and buy some ketchup glitterknickaz. Treat yourself to some barbecue sauce while you're at it too. Go on, take the piss!

"Tethers- come off it, its quite well known a majority of the UK are not keen on benefits and Im saying this will not help perceptions of claimants."

I wonder if this is true? I'm not sure it's the case- of course, it could be, but how would we know?

I honestly can't see where anyone has supported benefit fraud, Coco- are we reading different threads?

I might get mayonnaise too.
I'm entitled, after all.

MrsDevere I have no idea about 50k :(

But what I mean is people on half of that who get nothing- its quite hard.

"I wonder if this is true? I'm not sure it's the case- of course, it could be, but how would we know?" becuase people on here are saying "you all think this bad thing of me because Im on benefits" etc- they wouldn't say it without cause.

"are we reading different threads?" erm, probably. There are people saying they dont care what their neighbour is up too and wouldnt report fraud, cash is hand is ok etc

Not sure who all these people are that you meet saying they're entitled to this and entitled to that, OP. Aren't most benefits means-tested? Tax credits, child credits, housing benefit, you name it - it's all limited to low income people or non-earners so anyone who works in a normal job wouldn't be entitled to much anyway.

The one time I checked that entitledto.co.uk website (I'm sure you love that name!), I seemed to be entitled to sweet FA, really. I doubt there are many people who willingly give up their jobs or houses to avail of the lucrative JSA or housing benefit bonanza just because they're 'entitled' to it...

"becuase people on here are saying "you all think this bad thing of me because Im on benefits" etc- they wouldn't say it without cause."

MN is important, but I'm not sure we can use it as the nation's barometer

Oh tethers- dont forget the daily mail readers too!

In the interests of impartiality, of course

A family on 25k would get WTC an CTC coco.

They would get CB too and if they had any family members with a disability they would get DLA if they qualified.

I find the whole WTC thing quite hard to get my head round. Its been great for us but I still dont understand it.

I think if the people who moaned about not getting enough had to survive in the 80s/90s when you either worked and got nothing regardless of pay or were on the social, they might have a different view.

That was a benefits trap. The moment you started work, even if you earnt less than benefits paid, the lot stopped. So people were trapped. Not mimimum wage either.

It was crap.

Much better now. At least we can work and survive. In the bad old days it would be pointless us working. I dont mean that old 'its not worth us working, we would only be a few quid better off' I mean, it would be utterly pointless because of our earning capacity.

But lets say you only get 3k above that at 28k so miss the cut off point.

Do you know what your left with to live off once you have paid tax and student loans?

£20,073.65

You will have to find everything out of that- no HB etc so a huge whack goes on accomadation- rent or mortage. No free school dinners either, so thats another commitment.

You might also have to pay £1000's in travel expenses to work. Lets say £3000.

Its misreable. Maybe ok if you are single- but with a family too? Its frustrating.

Miserable in comparison perhaps to the family who are on the very upper limit.

But compared to a family on the low end?

I know who I would rather be.

You cant get free school dinners if you get any WTC regardless of how low your income is. I think that is a bit off tbh.

Getting back to the original question, I think that some people receiving benefits feel the need to mention that they were once in paid employment.

This may be for several reasons, it could be defensive or it could be a way of bolstering their altered self image. Basically, it is a way of saying they were not always so low. The entitlement crap is just a way of conveying these feelings to other people using acceptable terms. It is never easy to put your hands up and say 'yeah, I'm a fuck up, I've got no job, no money, no prospects, I bet you hate me now'. So, people phrase it differently to try and make their friends (!) judge them less harshly.

To use the awful deposit/withdrawl analogy; classing benefit claimants and benefit thieves as the same thing is a bit like comparing a bank robber to someone withdrawing their own money. IT IS NOT THE SAME THING!!!!

No sane person would wish to be on JSA, it is a miserable and shameful existence. And, if things continue the way they are going, many of the haters on this thread will be eating their words.