AIBU to demand my BIL allows me to move into his house?

[creamola]

(Long but background required to set scenario.)

I have posted before about my sister who has depresssion following hysterectomy and has turned to alcohol to cope.

She is now in a complete and utter mess.

Last week I discovered that BIL and niece had gone off on holiday and was able to get access to the house and bring my sister down to my house.

She is unrecognisable, filthy skin, hair and clothes, face broken out in red spotty blotches (looks like a drunk street person)

Her bedroom is beyond disgusting.........it's filthy, full of empty bottles, old food, rubbish everywhere and stinks (not smells, stinks )

I had a long phone conversation yesterday with BIL to try and arrange a family meeting to see what idea's we could come up with to help and he's not interested.

More or less he's said myself, my son and my ex-husband (who helped me with her last week) can do what ever we want but he's not interested in being involved ......he's had enough and doesn't want to know??

I can't get her to move into mine so I'm considering insisting that I move into their house for maybe a month to see if I can get through to her and help her.

I know he won't go for it so wonder if it's unreasonable to just move in and refuse to leave due to him refusing to help her?

How about neutral territory? Going away somewhere for 3 weeks which breaks the cycle of being in her house, which sounds squalid and therefore is part of the problem? If there is a way it could be done on the cheap it may help. Or Is there a reason why she can't go to ops house? Agree with porcamisera it needs to be alongside professional help; 3 weeks with the sister might help and give her a lift but wont solve the problem

whosegotmyeyebrows .....it's been about two years .

She had an emergency hysteromy than pulmetted ito depression and anixety .

That in turn ment she could no longer keep her employment.....they were very good and let her go by 'redunancy' ......but then it all went tits up and she started drinking.

It's shocked me and everyone else who knows that she started to drink because for 49 years she never touched a drop.

miniwedge .......she was on HRT for 2 months but her body reactly badly to it so her gp took her off the treament

claw3 Ive done that twice now within the space of two weeks, getting her admitted to hospital

I haven't read the entire thread but I am even more convinced knowing that he is violent that moving in is not an option. It would be an absolutely toxic situation. Does your sister still want to be with him or is she so far gone that she doesn't know what she wants any more.

From our positions and everything you've said it would seem she's better off without him, kick his backside out and start to get herself together, but also from what you have said she hasn't got the emotional strength to tackle that right now.

I do feel for you.

Al anon will be a great source of strength for you.

Creamola, i think you staying with her is a good idea, it doesnt sound like she wants to help herself at the moment. With your help and support to break the cycle if only for 3 weeks, might give her the time and strength so she can think clearly and decide she does want some help.

Even if it amounts to nothing and she continues, at least you know you have tried everything.

I agree you have to do what you have to do and pull out all the stops.

Creamola, I might have missed this in your posts, but the key point is whether or not your sister wants you to move in and help. Has she expressed a view either way, or is she incapable of doing so? I think if it were me, and she's reached the point where she's too drunk to even care or notice who's in the house, I think I'd move in anyway and at least try to help. Especially as BIL is not actually there at the moment, and it sounds as though she needs somebody with her to try to keep her safe. Once he gets back , you can talk about next steps then.

If he's said that you can try what you like as long as he doesn't have to get involved, then you could see that as an implicit agreement to you moving in while he is away to help your sister.

There's never an excuse for him punching your sister, it's wrong and deplorable. But it's impossible for us to know whether he is a violent abuser or at the point of a breakdown himself.

Hope you are getting some sound advice from the professionals.

If your bil is violent while you are present, call the police and have his arse removed.

I do feel for your bil actually, it is very frustrating living with an alcholic who doesnt want help, he has had 2 years of it, you are only starting to get involved by the sounds of it. (although no excuse for violence)

Also you are not 'moving in' as such you want to' stay' for 3 weeks, you are visiting, not moving in.

claw3 & mitmoo ...........my BIL isn't violent in the traditional sense .....he only managed to punch my sister because he has the upperhand at the moment .

He is a complete flimsy of a male...he always has been

I had a long coversation with him yesterday............he's wishes are 'If you take her down to your house I never want you to bring her back, that will make me happy'

He even said ..............to me............she is genetically flawed she will never recover .

I want to rip his balls off and shove them in his mouth until he chockes (obviously I wouldn't do that

My dh is an alcoholic. I would love someone from dh's family to help me, but if one of them thought they could move in I would go mad. What on earth makes you think you can do better than your bil has? I would take it as a personal insult frankly.

Whilst I don't condone violence in any way, I can sympathise with the situation your bil is in. He is at the end of his tether. I have moments most days where I wish dh would die so that my pain could end. Can't you have a little compassion for him?

I regularly say things to dh like the things your bil said. It's trying to create the rock bottom point that all alcoholics need to hit. The 'you need to do something or you will lose us all' point. Sometimes it's just a release of stress too.

You have no idea how hard it is to be married to an alcoholic. You really don't.

I think it's lovely that you want to help, but you have to be realistic. If someone she is married to hasn't been able to help her, then you probably won't either. Tbh, he needs your help just as much as she does.

angel oh my .........that must be heartbreaking

If I can ask you a question (hope that's ok) ?......have you and DH got separate bedrooms and if you have is room stinking and smelly ?

I'm asking for a reason

You need to preserve yourself in this situation, my mum went through something similar with two of her sisters, it went of for years all told. You really need to get your own support in place if you are going to involve yourself in this situation as much as you are planning, it will wear you out.
Who looks after you? Where do you unload/destress/cry/shout/just talk?

I have no experience of them myself but might Al Anon (support for the families of alcholics) be helpful to you?

You're on a hard road, take care and the very best of luck. I hope your sister finds a way through.

I understand your frustration Creamola, as i and others have said he is probably at the end of his tether after 2 years of dealing with your sisters alcoholism and depression.

If you think you can rush in and cure your sister by staying with her for 3 weeks, imo you are very much mistaken. Getting your bil on side would be a huge help for both you and your sister, even though you are angry, perhaps you should take the helping them both approach, rather than demanding things from your bil. Their relationship didnt deteriorate over night, it has probably taken a long time for their relationship to reach this point. It will probably also take a long time to repair relations.

I think the first step would be for your sister to agree to seeking help, then your bil might change his attitude. I still think staying with your sister is a good idea, as i said to try and break the cycle to enable her to think clearly. Could you put it to your bil, you want to give him a break kind of thing?

Angel that is a very honest and heartfelt post, and you speak from firsthand experience of living with the situation week in week out. I hope you find support for YOU as well as for your dh, you need to protect yourself and any children if you have them. As you say, there is nothing anyone else can do without 'the alcoholic deciding to come on board. I bet you feel you have tried everything, tough love included .

I clearly recall your previous post - the way your sister has been treated by the medical profession made me feel extremely angry as this situation was entirely preventable.

As for your BIL, he's a twunt of the first water and I suggest that you proceed in the best intterests of your sister because it seems as if you are the only one who cares about her welfare and wellbeing.

You've mentioned your sister being hospitalised - has that been since you last posted her?

What meds is your sister on now, what tests have been carried out to determine her current hormone levels, and what hrt has she been offered?

'posted here' not posted her!

Angel, i grew up with an alcholic father, my mother eventually divorced him after trying everything in her power to help him. I agree unless you have actually experienced first hand, living with it, day in, day out, it is very hard to imagine.

I am going to be blunt-sorry!

This is something that Al-Anon will tell you, but as long as you are there to "rescue" your sister, she will never reach her bottom.And she needs to to accept that she is an alcoholic.

You need help from Al Anon, alcohol counselling groups etc etc.

Can I ask what you hope to achieve by moving in with her? Are you planning to take her booze away from her? This would be very very dangerous,she would need medication such as anti psychotic medication to help with things like DT's etc.

I do understand that you want to help your sister,but you can't "fix" her, she needs to do that herself.

www.cptryon.org/prayer/special/serenity.html

I think you need help to deal with your sister, but moving in would be the worst thing in the world.

I have lived with alcoholics all my life.My father died from alcohol addiction and so did my MIL.

Cremola - a slightly different scenario but my ex SIL had mental health problems and there were times where my DB couldn't get her to wash. What was he supposed to do, pick her up (she weighed as much as him) and stick her in the bath? She would not tidy up after herself at all at home (DB worked, she had lost her job due to her MH problems) yet she would sometimes help if she was at someone elses house. Its not easy to tidy someone's room if they are screaming at you not too or if you are knackered keeping the common areas of the house clean and doing all the housework on top of working because your partner is not capable of doing so. My SIL would refuse to take her medication or turn it into a big fight yet without it her mood worsened.

Your sister clearly needs professional help and it sounds like your BIL is struggling to cope. However, your BIL has probably tried his best in a very difficult situation and has seen the woman he loves fall apart and perhaps he doesn't know what to do anymore. I wouldn't like to imagine how hard the last two years have been for both of them.

If it was my sister, I wouldn't really give a shit what he thought. He sounds like a weak and nasty little man who has lost his meal ticket and wants shot of whats left behind.
If I thought it would help her I would move in and tell him to just try and remove me. He doesn't sound like he would do anything though, since he never has done anything.
Forget about him, think about her. If you think you can help her, do it, and fuck what he thinks about it.

Thank you for the lovely messages. I didn't mean to hijack the thread with my own tale.

In answer to your question cremola, no we don't have separate bedrooms, no spare room. I sometimes resort to making him sleep on the sofa but that's quite rare now. Things are a lot better than they used to be - your sister is in the place my dh was a few years ago now. Each year that goes by gets better, but still not where I want us to be.

Please do send me a message if you want to talk (I'm new to posting on MN but think you can do that?)

thank you

I knew he was a sleazeball last night after our 'heart to heart' when he bascially said do want you want ...........

I mentioned the first thing I would be doing was getting our 'old family' doctor out to see my sister..

The appointment has been booked and he (the doctor )has agreed to keep me in the loop entirely regarding my sisters 'health'

I then mentioned that I will be seeking power of attorney regarding her finances and well-being .

I have now just had a phonecall from my sister saying 'I don't want power of attorney'

I asked her why that phrase was coming up and she said 'DH is saying he can get power of attorney over me'

Obviously I explained , that's not how it works..........but the little slimeball (BIL) is now saying directly to her ...........I can get power of attorney and control your finances and decisions........

I am so so so angry ................thank you for letting me vent

But the doctor can't "keep you in the loop", he has to respect patient confidentiality.

You can talk to him and let him know your concerns but until you have power of attorney etc he would not be allowed to discuss your dsis treatment etc with you.

You do know how hard it is to get power of attorney against someones wishes don't you? And I have to question whether or not you understand why it is used.

You can't use pa to force your sister to get well. It wont work like that.

So basically he's after her house and money? As he's clearly not interested in helping her, time for some legal help imho.

Make sure you write everything down, see if you can get him to text you saying he's not interested in helping her.

Is he still on holiday or what?

Cripes.

Christ I would be reporting that GP like a shot if he actually said that. No way can a doctor agree to discuss another adults medical details with someone without consent.

Her living conditions sound worrying, I don't think this something you can deal with on your own, especially given that her partner is resistant and violent. She needs to be assessed by social services and referred to the local drug and alcohol unit. Start with an urgent trip to the GP. Please don't battle through this alone.