to be annoyed by people complaining about the "intensity" of the summer holidays

[whoneedssleepanyway]

Met some friends yesterday, they are both SAHMs, I work 3 days a week in fairly high pressure job and my DDs are in nursery (private nursery so no summer holiday).

They were both complaining about how the summer holidays had seemed so long and it was so intense looking after the children for that length of time and find things to do and how their children were getting bored now.

All our DC1s are due to start reception in September.

Both patronisingly said to me "you don't realise at the moment but you will do once your DD1 is at school how long and intense the summer holidays are", to which I was like "Well sadly I will still have to work in the summer holidays so won't have the benefit of spending all that time with my DDs"

WTF...I would LOVE to have the whole summer off with my DDs, oh the poor things having to spend the summer finding things to do with their children...

AIBU?

I don't think there is anything wrong in being jealous of mothers who get to spend more time with their children than most of us are able to . Think such jealousy is understandable, I don't see why that is being thrown around as an insult.

You can be jealous but not say that people aren't entitled to find things hard because you're jealous.

Also the jealousy is misplaced.Op has no idea what so ever how much and what SAHMs have sacrificed.

The grass is always greener

So basically you have it harder than anybody,full time career women and SAHM and only you are allowed to complain.

yes that is exactly what I said

cheerio

Like you, OP, work three days a week which means I spend four days a week with mine.

I am very much looking forward to September!

I agree that doesn't give you a right to say that nothing about their life is hard.

Jealousy is not rational and therefore you can feel jealous of a single element of someone's life. I know that me being jealous of sahm is stupid because I have nobreal choice in the matter, it does not stop me feeling that way.

Hmm.

I was a WOHM for years, then a Student Mum (so summer off but still a timetable and workload) then SAHM and now a carer.

Having tried all options (!) I would say I have yet to find something that is perfect! So when I hear people whine about how easy X is or how hard Y is i just think that everything comes with it's own set of worries: if you work you get a break away (and don;t under value that) and a sense of financial independence I recall with evny, now I have time but no money and complications beyond belief, when I was a SAHm I ahd a Dh working long shifts to pay for it always asleep upsteairs (permanent nights) meaning we had to always be silent and that was ahrd with toddelrs.

I like the summer hols once ds1 has ahd the kkiller asd meltdown that occurs at some point in the first three weeks of the change in routine.

I have been a SAHM and am very aware it is not perfect, but having done all the options, working part time, working full time and being a SAHM I think it is the one that woukl make me the happiest now. However it is just not an option. Maybe that is why it is so attractive, maybe we all want what we can't have.

Possibly true Twinkly. As a carer I find that lack of choice in by far the hardest thing to accept. Like you I had to work, no other option without losing everything and now I have to not work - life is very far in relaity from the story we are all sold as kids of it being what me make it, to a very large extent it's about making the best of what you have to do instead.

I'm sorry if you're jealous of SAHMs whoneedssleep. I am a SAHM and on balance, I think it's the best option for me at the moment and therefore I'm lucky. But there are days when I have conversations with some WOHMs when I want to jump off a cliff. They say they are "jealous" and I'm so "lucky" but it's really just a passive aggressive way of having a dig and calling me stupid.

There are of course other WOHMs who are lovely and supportive and are either a bit jealous or not at all jealous of the crazy way I've chosen to live my life. Sometimes, if I'm feeling down, I can mistake one for the other. It sounds like the SAHMs you were talking to may have put you in the sly putdown camp and reacted defensively. Reading your OP I can see how they might have made that mistake, as you're pretty dismissive of them and their experience.

FWIW, I love the holidays. I have a car and enough money to make them not really difficult. I have lots of mumfriends to meet and join up with. I've done projects with DS1 and taught him to swim, made the most of days out, lazed around a bit, (though I don't take to that well and feel guilty) And yet, I do find them hard work and I do find them intense.

They are mostly intense because the social support network that a SAHM can build for herself mostly shuts down over the summer. If you carry on going to work, you maintain that day to day contact with colleagues who, unless they are totally toxic, do provide you with the social interaction we all need (a mixture of friendship and annoyance IME but it's diverting and it keeps you grounded).

In the holidays, for a SAHM, all the social networking and activities that cost a couple of quid in termtime and take place in a church hall, require either shedloads of money to go to some attraction, or a picnic (which I hate anyway and are a fair amount of work to pack up and when you get there there are no toilets so you have to let the 5yo crap in a potette and if it rains the whole thing gets called off and the children are disappointed) or you have to tidy the house sufficiently to have people round only to have the whole lot trashed again by marauding children). Yes, I do all of these things in termtime (a fair bit in fact), but they are in addition to the daily and weekly round of schoolrun and toddler groups which add structure to the week and ensure that I do see people regularly without having to bankrupt or exhaust myself.

The long holiday this year HAS been intense for us, as we've not got much money to do anything. Three bored 12 year olds are not fun. They need to be back at school for everyone's sanity, as they are fed up with each other too. At least in school they're in different classes.

The thing is that many women will have been a SAHM and a WOHM and therefore we genuinely do not want to make anyone feel crap. I am genuinely jealous of anyone that gets more time with their children than me, and I include my partner in that who I am definitely not having a dig at.

No Twinkly I'm sure you're not having a dig. I know many are not. Most are not, but some are. And some remarks are unintentionally hurtful too "Oh I couldn't let my brain turn to mush at home" type thing. They may just be said unthinkingly, but there are definitely two mums in DS1's class who do do it to make you feel bad (one of whom IMO genuinely does let her children down with her many and varied childcare arrangements - forgets to turn up or send someone to end of term concert and early pickup etc. etc. and I am fairly sure is wealthy and educated enough to do better but likes to make others feel bad instead)

I haven't read the whole thread. I have been all three; WOHM, SAHM and carer, the hardest thing about the holidays (as many threads on here show) is other peoples DC's, having to mix with other mums you don't really like and of course family (and family DC's/holidays). You aren't expected to be as available when you work, which is a blessing. Mine are now teenagers and don't want to do much with me anymore (accept shop) and my youngest cannot wait to get back to school.

I feel like I can speak a little from both sides here. I work full time, studying for masters in evening and have two DDs, 6 and 7.

This summer I have been lucky enough to be able to have two days a week off (due to lack of childcare - I am lucky to have a flexible job and can do some work from home). I have loved being able to spend more time with them, like yesterday we went for a long walk to a park and took a picnic - there all day with bikes and balls, it was lovely. I commented to a friend that I feel like I haven't had this much bonding time with them since I was on ML with DD2 .

OTOH, I can totally see that being a SAHM is extremely exhausting. Kudos to all those that do it - I certainly couldn't. I am not hard wired to be a SAHM, no matter how much I adore my girls. I would love right now to have a peaceful, quiet house, but they have friends round today and they are BEING VERY LOUD!!!

So I think YABU for commenting so harshly on something you hae no experience of; but YANBU to be envious.

The real travesty about our kids these days is that they are not allowed out to play

And who isnt allowing them - their parents of course. Far far too many overprotective parents around these days with over exaggerated fears. Where I live all the local children are out and about, my DH is a SAHD and couldnt have "entertained" DS2 all Summer long (DS1 is 18 and is quite capable of entertaining himself ), he has enough on his hands looking after DS3 whos 3. So Summer was a mix of organised activities but lots of time just being a child -and playing outside with his friends.

Twinkly be careful what you wish for.

I used to be the jealous one- hated being a WOHM (it improved as my career did and I moved into something I enjoyed)

The thing that bought me the ability to be a 'SAHM' was autism, in fact autism X 3 (one dx is pending but it's coming)

Ok so i'm not a 'real' SAHm but most people do not know that in RL; I try not to make a big deal of it with people for whom it is not a need to now in RL.

I do of course feel blessed to ahve my boys: I like being with them, cooking with them, all that side of it. I hate the financial dependence and constant worry that brings though. I just have too much pride to let on so nobody sees that side of it, I am sure that when I am at school not looking overly stuck to a schedule or ruled by chidlcare that some must envy me.

They are wrong, I envy them. At least I envy that their choices were not made for them by an unasked-for disorder.

And no YANBY to be envious

Most of us are, of something. I am envious of anyone who has secure housing, or NT kids, but there are many who would envy me because on balance I am a lucky person.

Peachy

I've done all the permutations. I definitely find the sch hols not only intense but hugely tedious by the end.

Can I ask those posters who are saying how wonderful they are and how you have leisurely breakfasts and days out, how many children you have?

I ask because I have 3 and by 8am they are fighting like mad. They are very affectionate and loving towards each other but they also fight constantly esp the 7yr old and the 5yr old. They fight at breakfast about whose turn it is to get spoons. They fight in the garden if one pushes past the other. Sometimes all 3 are fighting over things I cannot even fathom.

And yes, I organise stuff to do; trips, park, play centre, play dates, swimming, cinema etc. They often just about manage through these without killing each other but then they only last half a day and if it's a morning activity it almost makes them worse in the afternoon.

Don't get me wrong, my kids are good kids who have school reports I could have written myself and people regularly comment on how polite and well-behaved they are. And they are; just not with each other.

Oh and as for the leisurely breakfasts, how on earth do you get them to wait for them? If my 3 haven't eaten within 10mins of getting up they become a bear with a sore head. That usually means breakfast must be on the table by 7am latest as my children have never adjusted their body clocks for school hols and still rise between 6.45 and 7am every morning.

It is nice to have time with them but the summer break is utterly exhausting.

I have to go back to work soon after maternity leave and I openly admit to being jealous of those whose DH/DP earns enough that they don't have to, and get quite prickly when I hear or read judgemental things about working mums. There does seem to me to be a culture that working mums are the bad guys, selfishly neglecting their children who spend their days crying at nursery while SAHM's are wonderful, self sacrificing saints. But maybe we all notice criticism levelled at groups we fit into more than that which effectively doen't involve us. Maybe SAHM's feel that society judges them, I don't know. That said, I wouldn't criticise people's choices because it is their business not mine and I hope to get the same respect back. And it is obviously insensitive to complain to someone about something they wish they had, whatever that may be.

duckdogers, playing outside is great in theory but lots of people don't live in cul-de-sacs or on estates with lots of other houses and kids. Many people live on busy roads or in the middle of nowhere where the road outside has no pavement and mirrors to show other road users when a car is pulling out.

The road outside my house is just too dangerous for my 7yr old and 5yr old to be out playing in let alone my 3yr old. They have a large garden to play in and do so but the traffic is too heavy and fast outside the house to allow them out and it's certainly not a road where kids could play on their bikes anyway.

I'm not sure if that's exaggerated fear or not. I played out at their age but in a village with very few cars. Maybe if we lived on a housing estate that was full of other kids out in the street but we don't.

Agree, cars have never been so dangerous as they are now.

But having said that, I think children need to learn how to occupy themselves; I'm as guilty as anyone for over scheduling my children.

Gosh no whoneeds

yes OK the boys and the autism is bad luck and I;d love a house I knew was secure but in comparison to so many we have so much! I ahve a decent DH I love, we live currently in a lovely village and even if we have to leave we'll have been blessed to spend 7 years here. The boys are coming along well within their diagnoses and when i can screen out the little bits- and I can mostly, just we get to hear about the lease end of next month so we start panicking for a bit- I am aware that we have the majority of what we dreamed of. The little thing id on't have that I would like is about flexibility- when DH lost a job years back through illness I took 2; when he needed to work shifts I got an evening one- it emant we could always protect ourselves to an extent from insecurity and taht freedom is something that you do not know the value of until you lose it.

In a year DH graduates and I will ahve some flexibility abck; comapred to manyc arers, having a DH, kids who can walk and talk, decent school placements and a long term plan makes me the luckiest by far.

DrCoconut, most WOTH mums I know don't at all wish they could be SAHMs! Most don't need to work but chose to do so either for their own sanity or to keep up with their career. I'm currently a SAHM with 3 children under 7 and another on the way. I would love to be able to go back to work but it won't be happening for at least another year. I am slightly jealous of them that they get to go to work. But I do know they struggle with childcare through the summer so at the moment I'm grateful not to have that issue.