To report staffie to police for attacking my DD 14 wk old puppy?

[pippala]

Last evening my daughter and her partner were walking their puppy past some houses on an extendable lead.
Staffie tears down his driveway which had no gate and picks puppy up by his back and shakes him.
The lead was extended so wrapped around dog and daughter and boyfriends legs.
Boyfriend bitten on wrist by puppy as he tried to pull him away from the dog. He managed to get him out of the dogs mouth and handed him to my daughter.
The staffie then jumped up and got puppy by the back legs and dragged him out of my daughters arms. Now in the middle of the road.
My daughter was screaming, she thought Puppy would die.
Young boy aged about 10 saunters down the drive, totally uninterested attitude and gets staffie off puppy. without a collar on!
Four men from across the road also tried to help before boy came down the drive.
This dog could so easily do that to a toddler walking past the house.
Will the police do anything to help?
This dog could have history. He had no collar on and loose in the garden. What if he kills a child one day when it could have been pervented?
They should pay the vets bills which will run into the £100's but we dont want to approach them personally. Would the police help? Could we take it to the small claims court?
What if the puppy doesn't pull through. My poor daughter she is devastated.

We've already established that we think differently, blinkineck.

I'm perfectly at ease with my moral compass and speak of the pounds from years of experience of rescuing from them and of knowing what goes on behind those doors. It's generally the case, IME, that when some of this is explained to those who aren't aquainted with it they are horrified and start to think very differently themselves.

More to the point, the issue in hand.

I hope to god that the OP's puppy pulls through this without ongoing ill effect and that she will take the advice I have given to resolve the issue as much as it can be.

As someone who knows and has worked alongside several dog wardens and counts a couple as friends I can assure her that the warnings from others above are indeed likely to be correct and that she will in all probability lose much creditability in her serious situation if she approaches the DW with the "it could be a child next" line, particularly when it was a young child who successfully dealt with the SBT.

I'd also suggest strongly that she secures ongoing training and socialisation for her pup to ensure that he suffers no fearfulness or fear aggression as a result of the attack and would recommend that in doing this she particularly makes a point of socialising her pup with SBT under controlled, expert supervision.

LadyHare, it sounds to me that you are speaking of a council pound, and not a rescue. Many use the terms "rescue kennels" or "Dogs Home" - Battersea and Manchester "Dogs Homes" are, for example, pounds and not rescues. A genuine rescue, for one thing, would be unlikely to willingly accept dogs it knows it cannot home and will therefore feel obliged to kill. A pound has no choice in which dogs go through its doors and it's decision to kill healthy dogs will be made on the basis of space (ie more incoming dogs which they have a legal contract and obligation to take in) and for economical motives.

Many of the public confuse the two, which is potentially dangerous as a pound, apart from the fact that none have a genuine no kill policy, will not offer the security and responsible assessment and back-up that a reputable rescue will. That could and indeed has resulted in the public adopting from a pound thinking it was a rescue, sometimes sadly to my personal knowledge with heartbreaking effects, resulting in an injured human and dead or unwanted dog.

I appreciate that you won't want to name the establishment publicly, but could you either please confirm the type it is or pm me with the name so I can either apologise (and damn the rescue to hell, albeit without naming it here, if it is indeed a rescue!) or ensure that the difference is clear in order to prevent anyone from making mistakes on where they adopt from?

In my experience Staffies are great dogs.
Unless there is a real fear that the dog put someone in fear of being bitten, then I am afraid that biting another dog is not something the police would deal with. It is not a dangerous dog unless a person is at risk at that time.

"We've already established that we think differently blinkineck"

Indeed we have, thank god.

I havn't read the whole thread, i am a Staffie owner and a responsable dog owner i keep my dog in my garden (would never find her walking loose) but also when walking my dog around houses i keep her on a very short lead (wouldn't walk my dog or any dog around houses on an extendable lead) but i agree that the dog should not have been out (what ever bread it is) so needs to be reported. There are many dogs that would do the same to a puppy if it came near their property which is why dogs should not be roming around. I think its the owner of the staffies fault your puppy got attacked. I do hope the puppy makes a full recovery.

My Staff would probably run away from a puppy as she's such a wimp but would jump up and lick people .

Problem is, scurry that the Act is so loosely worded and poorly understood and some members of the authorities, I'm sad to say, seemingly so happy to positively encourage the approach that the humans were in fear that action can be taken, albeit that it would be wrong and not in the real spirit of the Act.

'My Staff would probably run away from a puppy as she's such a wimp but would jump up and lick people'

No thank you.

It had "rescue kennels" in it's title. I found the title misleading, it was a council pound. I agree that there should be a distinction between rescue and pound.

Profess- thats exactly why i wouldn't let her out of the garden and i keep her on a short lead. My point is the owner should keep their dog under control.

"It had "rescue kennels" in it's title. I found the title misleading, it was a council pound."

Thought so. :(

The bastards should be done under the trades descriptions act.

Any dog that persisted in attacking another dog whilst that dog was being held in the arms of someone is a danger.

Even if the aggression was being shown towards the other dog rather than the human, had the puppy been handed to a smaller person or child, they could easily have been badly hurt in the attack.

OP, I am very sorry to hear what happened to your daughter's puppy. Obviously, your first priority is to ensure pup makes a full recovery and is helped to socialise with plenty of other breeds. I must admit though I winced when I read that your daughter was walking him with an extendable lead. Please ensure you always walk pup on a shorter lead when you are out and about - you have greater control and can ensure pup is close by you - safer for all concerned. Pup can learn good walking manners at puppy class.

Obviously, you need to contact the Dog Warden and your local police and I'd insist on getting an incident number. You might also find it useful to make a formal complaint to your local Ward Councillor and even to your MP - this will ensure it does not get pushed to the bottom of the Intray. As others have said, if the property concerned is social housing, make sure this is reported to the social housing landlord.

You might also want to consider having a look at the DogLaw website and having a brief consultation with Trevor Cooper who is one of the leading solicitors in this field. He can advise on the practicalities of taking legal action yourself against the owners, which may actually be more help than that received from official sources.

Finally, and on a side issue - yes, murder is technically the killing of a human by another. But like many humans, part of my moral framework is to look at how we treat other species. The wholesale slaughter of otherwise healthy dogs in our Council pounds is shameful and immoral, no matter what word is used to describe it. The management of these strays costs millions each year and as a taxpayer I think it is entirely appropriate for me to have a view on the principles and practices of killing on the rates.

Just to clarify a few points:-
My daughter had taken the puppy for it's first walk to a park near their home. He has been out on his lead quite happily since Monday after clearence from the vet after his jabs were completed.
The house in question where the staffie lives is one or two roads away from where my daughter and her partner live,
The staffie tore down HIS driveway not DD's partners driveway as some have wrongly assumed.
Puppy has been going to puppy classes for a month now. DD advised at these classes to not pick up puppy when another dog approaches as it can instill fear in the puppy. He has met several other puppies at classes and several friends dogs in his home including mine own two dogs.
The staff tore down the driveway where he lived as he must of seen puppy passing. He did not come barking, just flat out. My DD was three doors down from the dogs home at the time of the attack.
Puppy lay on his back with legs in the air straight away in submission but staffie tossed him over and picked him up by his back.
DD's partner has five teeth marks on his wrist where he was bitten trying to rescue puppy. He is not sure which dog bit him but by the size of the wounds A&E doc thinks the puppy bit him in fright.
Partner handed puppy to DD as the lead was wrapped around his leg and dog was still growling at his heels. Dog then jumped up and grabbed puppies legs and pulled him out of DD's arms.
The lead was extended to about 2.5 foot and puppy was just infront of them as they walked along. When staffie approached at speed he ran between them hence lead getting tangled around partners legs.
As for me screaming hysterically about a baby being attacked according to southmum I was merely stating that if a dog can attack unprovoked a submissive puppy you can understand why there are toddlers attacked.
What if my DD had a toddler with her and the puppy?
I had no intention of claiming a child COULD be attacked by this dog to the police.
This thread has completely gone off track talking about murder of dogs etc
If this staffie has history I think personally it should be PTS to prevent further attacks POSSIBLY one day on a child.
Don't worry you can all debate this and dog murder all you like and whether I am a troll but I won't be coming back to read anymore posts.
My day has been distressing enough without being called a troll and a hysterical sensationlising poster

Just read this thread, hope your daughters pup recovers op and isn't too traumatised, must have been absolutely horrible.

Ignoring the last bit of the OPs post as still it isn't being taken on board that there is no proven correlation between dog/dog aggression and dog/human aggression, I feel that another disadvantage of those retractable leads is that they tend to tangle easily and be harder to undo when the dog maypoles around the owner's legs because they're so slim (the leads, not the owners' legs!). If owners want length of lead for recall training purposes when in the garden/park etc they'd be wiser to use a proper training lead and to use a normal width lead for close at heel walking.

DogsBestFriend, can you explain what you mean when you say that no pound has a genuine no kill policy. Genuinely interested because my council says it has a no kill policy and rehomes all healthy, non dangerous dogs.

"my council says it has a no kill policy and rehomes all healthy, non dangerous dogs."

And there you have the answer, Klad.

Aside from the fact that a no-kill policy is not one at all unless it is genuine and all-emcompassing except when the dog is suffering incurably a pound's definition of "dangerous" and "healthy" is at best variable and at worst pretty bloody appalling.

I know of pounds which will kill dogs which come in with or subsequently develop kennel cough. These go down on council records as "destroyed owing to ill health" if you care to make a FOI request but as you probably know it's stretching the truth to the point of taking the piss. Kennel cough, as you doubtless also know, is entirely curable with a simple course of ABs. Sometimes you don't even need that, depending on the severity of the case and the likelihood of cross-infection in multi dog households.

The problem with kennel cough is that it spreads like bloody wildfire. A dog with it could easily infect the others in the pound and then you're looking at a rapidly increased vet's bill. So what's cheaper? 20 courses of ABs or one single injection of barbiturate?

I know pounds which do this.

I also know pounds - one in particular - which routinely kills GSDs, Staffs, Rotts, Mastiffs etc at the end of their legally demanded 7 days in the pound as they won't spend the time trying to work with rescue to get them into safety.

And "dangerous" dogs?

Those who are considered dangerous in the legal sense won't be in your local pound - those awaiting court cases under the DDA will be in a secret location. YOUR pound's definition of "dangerous" is... what... ?

A dog which is so frightened of being in the pound, amongst the smell of fear and other dogs, far from his home humans he knows, that he growls when someone approaches him? So they say, "I can't get near that dog, can't risk it, haven't the time to sod around with him" and mark him down for death when the vet comes round next morning.

So many of these dogs are only deemed "dangerous" because it's a fuck site easier and cheaper to kill them than to work with rescue to place them in safety once their 7 days in the pound are up.

I've got one of those dogs right here. Couldn't get near him, no-one can, 3 years down the line the (lovely) rescue owner STILL can't! But he loves me to bits... because I'm a rescuer and he went to a genuine no kill rescue where i took the time to work with him, determined that I'd overcome his fear... and I did, he's been here a year now.

Believe me, I've fought to get what must be hundreds of dogs like him out of the pounds. Dogs which weren't "dangerous" but just pure bloody frightened. I've saved hundreds too. Every single one that I could get to the safety of no-kill rescue I did get to safety... and the faces of every dog that the bastard pound managers refused to release to rescue despite my pleas and instead ordered to be murdered will haunt me for ever.

Blimey. :(

The other thing to say is that some pound managers lie.

I can tell you this, from painful personal experience of trying to rescue one particular dog - one with no issues, loved by staff in the council pound that calls itself Manchester Dogs Home.

The pound manager promised staff and I that she would hold Bryn, whom she'd threatened to have killed, over the weekend until Monday morning, knowing that I had given her my assurance that a rescue place would be secured for him and that come what may I'd have him on transport and out of the place by 9am Monday.

Not being big-headed but my reputation as a rescuer is pretty solid, she had no reason to doubt me.

I was up until, christ I forget now, 4 or 5 am Sat night/Sun morning appealing for a rescue place for Bryn. Emailing rescues, on the phone to rescue owners who by nature of the job keep the same stupid hours, replying to offers of transport and drinking cola as if my life depended on it... because Bryn's did.

I did it. Secured transport and a rescue place, he'd be picked up at Monday at 9am as promised and taken to no kill rescue. Knackered, I went to bed.

At 10am on Sunday morning I picked up an email from the kennel hand who'd asked me to save Bryn.

The pound manager had had him killed on Saturday evening, after the public and staff had gone home. :(

All the time I was pleading for someone to save his life, Bryn was already dead.

Manchester Dogs Home claimed, and still claim in all their literature, to be a no-kill "rescue". It is not a rescue. It is not no-kill.

Manchester Dogs Home are liars.

Ignoring the last bit of the OPs post as still it isn't being taken on board that there is no proven correlation between dog/dog aggression and dog/human aggression,

I feel sure even you will have to agree that there is a correlation between dog attacks and irresponsible dog owners. All those who have condemned the OP who has done nothing wrong at all are arguing it is wrong to say it could be a child next time.

WELL IT COULD

The dog has clearly not been trained.

The dog is not kept in a secure place.

The dog may well not be inherently dangerous as an individual or a breed, but any untrained, unsecured dog can be a danger to other animals and to people.

Many have emphasised the importance, rightly for the puppy to be trained while conveniently, it seems, forgetting that the Staffie's behaviour shows that it is very unlikely that it will have been trained at all, and is certainly not kept in a secure environment.

It is therefore, as has been shown, a danger to people and dogs. It doesn't matter to me that the puppy bit the partner in fear because the situation would never have happened if the Staffies owners were responsible, trained and secured their pets. So albeit not a direct bite on a human the situation was caused entirely by the owners of the Staffie.

I would be looking not only at reporting them but seeking compensation for the injuries caused and the vet bills.

In all this to and fro-ing about dog pounds, "proven correlation" between dog v dog and dog v human, it seems to have been lost that this is a viscious dog who picked up a submissive puppy (who was not on the dogs property), shook it and then dragged it out of the arms of the puppy's owner to continue attacking it. The dogs owner apparently showed no remorse and no surprise. people are tryng to twist it to put the blame on the puppy's owners for having it on an extendible lead.

A couple of months ago, DS2 (10) took Dill out for a run round the block. Somewhere along the line, a dog came haring out of their home and got into a fight with Dill. DS2 was bitten by the other dog trying to split them up but just one nip and not enough to draw blood. This owner was hugely apologetic. I did not pursue it as I am bright enough to realise it was just one of those things. The OPs scenario is entirely different.
It was a prolonged, repeated and savage attack.

Do you really think it was the puppy owner's fault in any way? Do you really think the other dog isn't dangerous?

Just because there is no proven correlation between dog and human aggression doesn't mean there isn't one to some degree. If a dog of mine had behaved like the attacker I would be ensuring he was rehomed somewhere with no children or animals.

The breed of the attacking dog is irrelevant.

exactly the extendable lead issue is a bit of a red herring IMO as it would only be a problem if it was extended while walking the dog near a road which would be a daft thing to do.

But you can make the lead short and just push the button to secure it so it is the same as a short lead when near roads and a long lead at the park while training the puppy.

Clearly no one should have the extended lead, extended near roads etc.

The OP has done nothing wrong at all.

My son was attacked by a JR on a long long lead while on a bike chatting to his Nan perfectly still. His trousers were shredded, and ran over and would have booted the dog but the woman managed to get the dog under control by reducing the lead and pulling him off, then she walked off as if nothing had happened!!!

She returned the next day saying she was too embarrassed to talk to me or my son and didn't know what do do, couldn't apologise enough, gave him chocolates and me the price of new trousers.

She had only rescued the dog a couple of days before and returned it to be rehomed, it was probably pts after that as it would be difficult to be rehomed once it had attacked a child. I didn't take it further as she had done all the right things so no need.