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Original poster

The God Delusion

439 replies

YummyHoney · 18/08/2011 19:26

In thinking that Richard Dawkin's The God Delusion should be compulsory reading for all secondary school children?

Not only would it put paid to all the religious nonsense some parents spout, it would also put an end to a lot of wars and violence in the world.

OP posts:
Original poster
YummyHoney · 25/08/2011 20:33

Sorry Claw3 - As you said, I wasn't paying attention. Yes, I accept what you/someone said about being deliberately offensive.

I'm afraid I'm rather distracted because my DD is going out looking less than classy.

OP posts:
Claw3 · 25/08/2011 20:35

Could i just add that being an atheist to me, simply means i have no belief in God. Although i would defend my view, I feel no need to convince anyone else that they shouldnt believe in God, this is just as bad as someone who does believe in God trying to convince everyone else to!

Cocoflower · 25/08/2011 20:35

Dawkins did make it famous though with his little outburst though didn't he? He is quite the "excitable" chap.

But none of these examples are really comparable to God are they? So its a little silly to say the least!

NotADudeExactly · 25/08/2011 20:46

Actually, I'm not aware of Dawkins ever mentioning FSM, so I would have thought he used it because it is famous. It's kind of like the new teapot, IYSWIM.

As for God being special or not comparable to invisible pink unicorns: To you, maybe. To an atheist it's exactly the same: something magical that somebody might say is there but for which there is zero proof. That is regardless of whether or not the idea is cute or beautiful or terrifying or whatever.

Basically, the reason why an argument would be constructed using a unicorn or fairy is previsely because the average believer will probably agree that the idea is completely absurd. Most people would not agree that the existence of fairies is likely in absence of any evidence. It's an attempt to make the atheist perspective accessible to the theist by replacing the god subject with something the theist won't feel strongly about and therefore approach from a biased POV. Another favourite example used for the same purpose is that of gods no longer revered, e.g. Zeus.

Claw can I just say I agree with your stance on atheism. Although I admittedly enjoy debating on the subject.

Cocoflower · 25/08/2011 20:52

Yes but there is no equal weight at all.

If I wrote a book about how I do not believe in the FSM would I make millions? Would I be all over the media? Would I be noted in history?

Has a war over broken out over a unicorn?

Do people have careers in the beleif of fairies? Do we have specially built buildings and a rich history? Do we have art and music?

Its simply not comparable!

Oh and here is Dawkins having his temper!

.
Claw3 · 25/08/2011 20:54

No worries Yummy.

Notadude, im glad you agree, i was begining to think perhaps i should reconsider what atheist were regards as!

Claw3 · 25/08/2011 20:56

beginning even, my fingers were all over the place with all those 'i's and 'n's

NotADudeExactly · 25/08/2011 21:10

For the sake of complete accuracy, yes some people do make careers out of fairies and that kind of stuff. New Age people tend to lick that kind of thing up. Of course that doesn't make it a tad more plausible than the god of the bible.

FWIW, Dawkins is in fact not primarily an atheist but a biologist. While I am not a fan of his polemic and deliberately aggressive style on atheism, I do happen to think that his work on biology is pretty impressive and in fact a much better read than the God Delusion.

And, Coco, no, you would of course not be able to gain anything but possibly internet cult status by starting an anti FSM crusade. That is because nobody actually believes in FSM in the way the god of the bible and quran is believed in.

The difference is basically that things in real life are actually done differently in order to accommodate those who believe in that god. Such as the fact that we don't work on some days that the god of the bible allegedly finds special. Fairies and FSM and even actual fringe beliefs such as lizard theory etc do not require the same amount of critical scrutiny because they have no such power. In other words: your life is never going to be affected by FSM. Everybody's is to an extent by Christianity if they live in this country. Which is why scrutinizing Christianity is practically more relevant than any criticism of fairies.

Cocoflower · 25/08/2011 21:21

Yes- but your post is good yet proving what I am saying.

Comparing God to say, fluffy pink invisible bunnies is childish at best as there is no real comparison at all.

One is intwined into our culture and (marginally) effects; the other not at all! I think making comparisons just makes the person doing it look a little immature.

By the way the "day of rest" is quite a brilliant idea. It is very unhealthy not to have a day off at least, to rest, relax and recouparate. Its simply a way of reminding to adress the balances in our life.

Claw3 · 25/08/2011 21:22

Just a thought, all this talk of fairies, goblins and such like, i wonder how many religious folk believe in ghosts?

Also whether its possible to be an atheist and believe in ghosts?

Cocoflower · 25/08/2011 21:25

I must admit out of the people I know, not that many believe in God in the Christian sense but they will believe in other spirtual things- souls, ghosts, the afterlife, oujai boards, lucky charms, a creator, angels or most commonly fate; "everything happens for a reason".

I do not think I have met anyone who literally does have some sort of supernatural beleif at all in anything.

DioneTheDiabolist · 25/08/2011 21:29

If you teach one view, teach the opposing view/s
No, no, no, no. MrGin, you are sounding more and more like a rightwing religious fundamentalist. In RE, children are taught about religion. In all other classes, children are not taught about religion.

So I guess my question is this: Is atheism a religion?

Claw3 · 25/08/2011 21:36

I dont believe in any of those things. I was just wondering whether atheist are 'prone' to not believing in anything without evidence of their existence or vice versa for religious people.

Cocoflower · 25/08/2011 21:39

You do not believe in souls even?

Claw3 · 25/08/2011 21:47

No Coco i dont, i believe in human nature, i believe in kindess, i believe in love, i believe in empathy, well i believe in lots of things, but not souls, fate etc.

Cocoflower · 25/08/2011 21:51

I see!

Funny how we can all see the world, ourselves and fellow human beings with such different eyes

NotADudeExactly · 25/08/2011 21:53

Can't speak for anyone else, but FWIW, I consider ghosts, fortune telling, basically anything supernatural to be just as absurd as the idea of a god. Again: no credible evidence but plenty of completely natural explanations (e.g. cold reading). If it can be proven and explained, it's basically not supernatural at all.

Personally I also don't see any reason to believe in an immortal soul. I strongly suspect that when we die that's basically it and that our personality etc. is strongly tied to our brain. Hence the ability of brain disease or injury to cause complete loss/change of personality or identity.

I'd say I'll find out eventually, but if I'm guessing correctly I actually wont :o

Claw3 · 25/08/2011 22:02

It is, our tolerance of differences varies greatly. Perhaps i should start a Cult! Grin

Claw3 · 25/08/2011 22:05

Notadude, 'basically it' does that mean there is an element of doubt?

Claw3 · 25/08/2011 22:15

You and I will be shitting ourselves on our death beds, just in case we got it wrong Grin

Anyhow interesting discussion, im off for the 2nd time!

Cocoflower · 25/08/2011 22:16

It is funny to me how people see a belief in God as so bad as I only see it as good.

Putting religion aside (as to me you can have God minus the religion), to me this is what it means;

  1. You are here on purpose, and have a meaning
  2. Things do happen for a reason
  3. You have prayer as a powerful tool (yes it works)
  4. You gain insight into things that you wouldnt normally know
  5. You are offered protection and strength
  6. Its gives you the most amazing sense of divine peace that is impossible without God
  7. It makes people very content and fills a gap
  8. The belief has cured many people and helped them move on
  9. You have hope that one day you will have something far better than anything else this world can offer
10. You will always see your loved ones again, epecially your children

Yes, laugh at me and say Im stupid if you like. But too me thats all what beleiving in God comes down too. None of us know 100% sure if it is true- but if it brings so much benefit I do not understand why people feel such a strong need to stop others having such a beautiful gift in their life.

NotADudeExactly · 25/08/2011 22:19

No doubt beyond the awareness that there is just no conceivable way of finding out for sure without dieing, no.

I'd happily wager not just my own life but that of my whole family on there not being any kind of continuation of the self after death. It just doesn't make sense in the context of everything we know about the brain, IMHO.

If I were to die and go to Christian hell I suppose I'd not ntice the fire for the first few million years because I'd be so absolutely stunned at the complete unlikelihood and randomness of it all. :o

PIMSoclock · 25/08/2011 22:21

Good on you coco!
( >

Cocoflower · 25/08/2011 22:22

I wonder why a lot of people on here have really focused on hell in their posts?

Cocoflower · 25/08/2011 22:22

whats (><

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