The God Delusion

[YummyHoney]

In thinking that Richard Dawkin's The God Delusion should be compulsory reading for all secondary school children?

Not only would it put paid to all the religious nonsense some parents spout, it would also put an end to a lot of wars and violence in the world.

This old chesnut again!

If you abolish RS totally you will leave a generation of totally ignorant children. As you say, relgion is intertwined into life (though far less these days) so you are doing a diservice to those children by uneducating them.

There is a difference between education and indoctartion

Why take away peoples choice who are relgious just because it suits you?

Children will be seeking out religion themselves anyway- its very, very natural to ask the big questions in life.

Finally what is the point, because as Claw pointed out people like MrGin got 'exposed' to relgion; yet here he is decades later telling us it was all wrong!

Though I do agree with "And he hasn't been put in ANY stocks. He's made a packet of money and has had endless media time."

I seem to remember from my school days, receiving a lot of teaching on evolution, does this not balance it?

Claw. Maybe the OP should say 'whilst there are bible in schools The God delusion should be compulsory' .

It's the idea that Christianity has ( and still does ) enjoyed such a privileged position in schools, in government and our society that irks me I guess. The Catholic child rape / torture cases being a good example.

I don't think necessarily it should be Dawkin's book but a robust counter to the religions would suffice.

Me too claw. Despite not been a Catholic I went to a Cathloc school and we were taught evolution too.

I think nearly any grown can say they were taught science and relgion at school- yet all of us made up our own mind and went our own way. We were armed with both sets of knowledge' knowlege is power.

So, why is there so much fear about our children now being 'exposed' to relgion- do people just assume their own dc's are more impressionable, perhaps stupider than themselves?

I've no objection to people, children being exposed to religion, as long as it explores all religions and origins as well as the atheist perspective. I very much doubt a Catholic school is going to give a balanced rounded education when it comes to religions of the world.

Mrgin, I agree there is no place for religion and or atheism in politics, this is where it becomes dangerous. Atheism has also enjoyed a privileged position in Government in some countires. But in schools and society, if there is a need for it, why shouldnt it be catered for? Just because im not religious, doesnt mean no one else is entitled to be surely? Atheist have meet up and groups which they can attend, if they wished to.

As i stated in the post just above yours, evolution is also taught in schools. Does this not balance it? Is there really a need for a book to counteract the bible. No child is forced to read the Bible in school, as far as i am aware, it isnt even freely available, its not available on the book shelves for children to choose to read it. However evolution type books are freely available and stocked on the shelves, my son brought home the 'the big bang theory' recently, he has never brought home a Bible to read!

Historically we could all give examples of terrible things that atheist and religion alike have commited and every debate always seems to descend to this. So i think giving examples is counter productive to this debate.

MrGin, actually I am older than you (45 a couple of weeks ago). I don't count saying prayers as reading the bible and pray is just a form of mediatation anyway. It does no harm to have a bit of introspection -be grateful for the good things, think about the bad stuff and how you might make it better. God only has any meaning in prayer if you give him meaning. Hymns are just songs about God, none of it makes you believe - you either do or you don't, nobody can be forced to. Morning assembly is just something you went through at school like registration or break time or maths lessons. Not on a par with actually being made to read the bible. Blimey, I have had more 'teaching' on Father Christmas foisted on me over the years. Doesn't make me believe in him either.

There is a world of difference between going through the motions of hymn singing and prayers and being forced to read religious or non religious tracts. We have all been through the education system and as far as I can see on this thread anyway, none of us have been changed by what we learnt at school. RE is just another subject in a majority of schools, not a way of evanglising.

Also agree that Dawkins has made money out of telling people what to think. He clearly is following the church's lead, who also apparently try to make us think a certain way to get money out of us. Good for him to have persuaded so many people to part with their money by creating an argument out of thin air. Apparently atheists can't prove something doesn't exist but Dawkins managed to fill an awful lot of pages doing it. That is what I call alchemy - creating something out of nothing.

Claw. Evolution is not ( other than to some religions ) an opposition to Christianity. It is simply a scientific fact ( one of many ) that contradicts a literal reading of the bible. But it is worth mentioning the conflicts it still causes in some countries. Notably the US.

So no, to me, the teaching of evolution does not counter the teaching of religion any more that maths does. Books like The God Delusion however do give a good counter to religious dogma.

"I very much doubt a Catholic school is going to give a balanced rounded education when it comes to religions of the world."

Go and visit some Catholic schools then- educate yourself. Times have changed MrGin! The last time I was in a Catholic was as a student teacher a couple years back. We had a wonderful pregnant female Rabbi with piercings and trainers give an assembly! I loved the fact she was so opposite to the stereotype.

After that I taught a lesson on Shabbat.

Where does this idea come from that we shouldn't criticise other people's beliefs?

Why not?

What magic books you choose to read is your business.

But as soon as your organisation starts shaping communities, and starts trying to influence health policy in the third world - then it's all fair game, and you can expect to receive some pretty frank critiques of your particular flavour of voodoo.

Mrgin atheism is not the opposition to Christianity, it is simply the absence of belief, unless you are on the extreme end. Being an atheist doesnt mean you have to be anti Christianity or anti religion.

So if the Bible isnt freely available for children to read, isnt counter acting it, counter productive!?

I guess what you are getting at is that atheism should also be taught in school, bearing in mind that atheism is based on the absence of belief, what should the lesson involve?

That's what I don't get MrsBethel.

2000 years of populations being told ( or burned ) they'll go to hell unless they convert. A guy writes a book in the 20thC pointing out the errors, and he's labelled a media whore.

My non Catholic son attended a Catholic school, they had some interesting debate during RS, much like this one, my ds trying to convince his class mates there was no God and vice versa. Bearing in mind only 10% of the school were non Catholic, he was clearly in the minority and didnt feel pressured to change his mind.

If atheist believe in such a balanced view, i wonder how many of them have a Bible available at home for their children to read? Do you Mrgin?

MrGin!

Athesim goes back much longer that Mr.Dawkins and the 20th C. He is not saying anything very new, he is just very clever at making money out of it.

I think most people object to him because they don't like him- not his message.

Yes I do have a bible at home actually Claw. It's wedged between two copies of the God Delusion.

LOL

Two copies- you are keeping Mr Dawkins minted!

Yes Dawkins has me under his mind control !

Or I possibly bought one and was given one as a gift.

:o

Why dont you donate one to a school then?

I may just do that Coco

< looks up nearest faith academy >

That served me right, for trying to be a smart arse

Im interested to know, what you think an atheism lesson should involve though Mrgin?

I don't think there should be an atheism lesson. I've not suggested there should be. I just think there should be balance and an exploration of opposing views.

Dawkins highlights the inconsistencies and errors in the bible. These at the very least should be part of RE class.

..... if we woke up tomorrow, and every school child was having Scientology lessons I think the country would be up in arms. I don't see any difference between Christianity, or Islam, or Hinduism etc etc and Scientology.

To me it's all myth and population control.

Here's an idea, though I think a lot of people on this thread have beaten me to it:

Don't like what Dawkins says?
Unable to construct a coherent argument against it?
Just say some not nice things about him. Problem solved.

:o