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AIBU?

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Original poster

why is "village idiot" disablist, but "loon" not?

214 replies

porcamiseria · 17/08/2011 09:22

sorry not picking on the poster that used the term "loon" but interesting that mitmoo got fucking CANED, and the other OP did not

smacks to me as an excuse for people to kick the living shit out of a poster that has annoyed them

you bullies! I dont agree with what mitmoo has posted . however I think this is more about bullying annoyance at a certain poster, using the PC excuse of disablist language

nuff said

OP posts:
Mitmoo · 18/08/2011 07:51

It's used to be commonly used in playgrounds for children to call others mentally unwell complete with the twisty finger thing. If one is offensive then so is the other.

To argue that "loon" isn't offensive but "village idiiot" is is hypocrisy at its very best. To not find loon offensive is fine as is it to not be offended by the term village idiot but to find one offensive and the other not is double standards at its very worst best.

I repeat for those struggling with understanding how language can also be literal the post referred to was about a woman who acted like an idiot and lived in a village, hence the literal use of language for the village idiot.

All references to that term being a reference to people with SN were made by others.

Pagwatch · 18/08/2011 08:01

Oh.

I have been away and don't really get this. I have avoided the back story so I don't understand the undercurrent here but the idea that anyone on hearing 'village idiot' should wonder whether it means 'village idiot' or is just an unfortunate location description linkage is beyond bizarre.

If you use village idiot then defend that - it may be acceptable. But to pretend that you could have just as easily said 'hamlet idiot' or 'city idiot' is looking a bit pathetic. Well it is to me.
If you said it, have some integrity and be honest about it -surely?

Mitmoo · 18/08/2011 08:16

Ill recap a little Pagwatch I broke down in a village & parked, a woman asked me to move the car as it was outside her house. No Drive. Had I not have been in a village I wouldn't have used that term but I was so I did. She was an idiot, I was in a village, there is a pack on here to jump onto everything I post and it really was like manna from heaven for them. I do not think of children with special needs as village idiots and did not say that that inference was created by others with agendas. My son has special needs.

I did not say a word to her face, she said she was being collected and needed to carry a buggy to her friends car, so I said my son would carry it for her, she'd already commented on the smell of the rubber before asking me to repark somewhere else.

There is language all over this site such as "loons" for one, and nothing said. Hence double standards, agendas etc.

Many of the attacks made have been removed now so are no longer visible, this has made the pack very angry indeed.

LRDTheFeministDragon · 18/08/2011 08:25

I'd have reacted more strongly to village idiot than loon, but it's obviously one of those issues that plays differently in different contexts - if you know of an offensive context for loon just don't use it/ask people not to use it and make them away of the context.

I didn't see the other thread either and it's not fun if you got jumped on, but why not just apologize and move on? It does seem a nasty term to me, to be honest. It just makes me think of a time when people mocked mental illness - there's no way that'd ever be ok.

Pagwatch · 18/08/2011 08:27

Ok. Thanks for the précis Smile

If I have time between finding out about ds1s uni place I will read it.

But , tbh arguments about agendas , double standards and packs not withstanding (all of which may well be valid) I still think the position you are putting forward about how village idiot related to her location is nonsensical.

I think in defending your position you are in danger of looking pretty foolish if you keep trying to pretend that you didn't just use a very recognizable phrase with clear and unambiguous references in a way that, upon reflection, might have been best avoided.

If you use 'village idiot' in front of 1000 people I suspect 1000 would understand that to mean exactly what it means and only someone looking for an out would attempt to put a different spin on it.

You are being obtuse about something it would be better to front up to and move on.

But, the rest of it is beyond me so I shall bow out.

Mitmoo · 18/08/2011 08:31

Because it is faux outrage by the usual suspects LRD other threads using loon in the title and nothing said. Definately faux outrage and double standards depending upon who is posting. If it were genuine I may have apologised if they had misinterpreted my meaning and there was certainly no reference to mentally ill or disabled people. However it was an excuse for yet another vulture swoop which the OP is pointing out.

ThePosieParker · 18/08/2011 08:34

I have never considered 'village idiot' to mean someone with learning difficulties, stupid? maybe, inconsiderate? yep, busybody? yep.....but SN? No.

GilbonzoTheSecretPsych0Duck · 18/08/2011 08:35

Genuine question, does my nickname offend anyone?

Mitmoo · 18/08/2011 08:37

Pag I asked MNHQ to remove the thread when the vultures first landed but they decided to leave it up, the predictable attack went on and on but MNHQ have now removed several posts. The last thing on my mind was mentally ill children, the woman was an idiot. What difference had I called her a moron, a thick bjtch, or even a loon or other terms that are used every single day on her without comment. Whatever I called her (on this site not to her face) would have been a derogatory name.

Which ones are acceptable and which ones not?

Mitmoo · 18/08/2011 08:39

Exactly Posie Parker

Gilbonzo, I am sure that if I called you "psycho" I'd be roundly condemned and the thread would blast through 500 posts in a morning.

ledkr · 18/08/2011 08:40

POSIE me neither, there was some history with mitmoo and i have to be honest i do feel she was initially jumped upon for the use of the word but in her attempts to defend herself did manage to offend.
I dont think there is an insult which wouldnt offend somone if it was looked into deeply. we all use insults dont we?

LRDTheFeministDragon · 18/08/2011 08:41

Oh, come on now - it is a reference to mental disability, surely?!

A 'village idiot' refers to the idea that someone who has learning disabilities is eminently suitably for mocking. It's a really nasty concept. I don't think it's a widespread term of abuse so I'm not in any way suggesting you're a nasty person at all - but you can't say it's not referring to people with mental illness/learning disability, imo.

The best way to deal with people who jump on an OP-bashing bandwagon is to admit you're wrong (if you are), then ignore them, btw. It is crap, I know.

ThePosieParker · 18/08/2011 08:42

Typical MN sheep behaviour, one person chooses to attack OP and everyone joins in. Much like the Johnathon Ross affair.

LRDTheFeministDragon · 18/08/2011 08:42

Btw, 'moron' and 'thick bitch' would get the same response from me - nasty words, especially moron.

If you reckon 'loon' is as offensive too, that's more reason not to use any of them. Not a justification to use all of them.

ThePosieParker · 18/08/2011 08:43

LRD. Nope I have never thought it meant SN. I've met plenty of idiots who don't have SN, in fact the only idiots I've met don't have SN.

Pagwatch · 18/08/2011 08:45

Can't really answer you to be honest. I wouldn't use any of those. I tend to stick to twat, cunt or cock monkey.

That's interesting posie. I have never heard it used in any other context. Tbh it doesn't make any sense to me as a busybody or someone who was inconsiderate Confused

But any way - Exeter . Hooray.

ledkr · 18/08/2011 08:45

LRD then surely "idiot" is also offensive. I dont use the term myself and now i know it can be offensive would certainly not do so ever.
When op used the term i really dont think she meant that the person was suffering from a disability merely that she was an idiot and lived inb avillage.That is not to excuse her further posts however which did become ofensive.

LRDTheFeministDragon · 18/08/2011 08:46

Posie - I think Pag put it well upthread, that these things are quite variable and in some places connotations are different from others - but the important thing IMO is not to jump on people for a mistake, and not to use a word if you discover it has an offensive backstory.

Village idiot does refer to people with mental disabilities - it's really sad and unpleasant. The fact it is shifting its meaning so you've not come across this is good I reckon, but not a universial experience. Sad

LRDTheFeministDragon · 18/08/2011 08:48

ledkr - hmm, I think 'village idiot' has a root use that is offensive, separately from idiot. But if idiot offends, I will re-think. As I say, for me personally, I use 'idiot' because the root meaning (an anti-social person) often seems appropriate to me. But maybe something else would be better!

ledkr · 18/08/2011 08:48

pag my insults tend to be more hardcore too Grin but if i say cunt i am not thinking in my head that the person is a vagina or if i call dh a twat-similar.These boards are full of insultif we took them all literally mn would grind to a halt.

ThePosieParker · 18/08/2011 08:48

I'm not sure I've ever used it TBH, so now certainly won't.

Mitmoo....Village arsehole would have been far better!!

And gentle guidance not offensive name calling is a far better way of educating.....think Leningrad!!

ledkr · 18/08/2011 08:51

lrd yes it certainly does- im thinking of the film Ryans daughter,cos im ancient,but i think people do use it as a jokey insult maybe wrongly but its not the only one is all im saying. I am happy to learn on these boards as i say i was insulting my own baby by saying "harelip" which i didnt realise was no longer acceptable,obviously unintentional on my part.

Mitmoo · 18/08/2011 08:52

The Posie many of the SN children I know are actually more intelligent not less so, children with HF autism and OCD for examples often have higher IQs not lower.

LRD What about if I had called her a stupid woman? Would that also be unacceptable? Where is the line? Who decides? I guess ultimately MNHQ do and posters don't is the ultimate answer.

The real point is language is thrown around on her without comment, there was part of one thread yesterday celebrating the word cVt I hate that word, but others find it acceptable. loon was used by one poster who criticised the use of village idiot, is village idiot worse than idiot*?

Its an endless debate really.

LRDTheFeministDragon · 18/08/2011 08:53

Grin Posie has it right, 'village arsehole' works well. It has a pleasant ring of 'the arse-end of nowhere'. Grin

ledkr - I don't know that film, but ok. I think you're right about jokey insults - I do see it's horrible to feel you've been jumped on for a word choice that wasn't meant to offend.

LRDTheFeministDragon · 18/08/2011 08:58

Cross-posted - what I'd say, Mitmoo, is there's not really one 'line'. You just respond to people around you and either put your case for using the word or apologize and retract. If that's what happened and people were still on about, that is crap and not your problem.