Fed up with boys in women's changing rooms at pool

[Clary]

Not really AIBU, more may I rant please?

Actually wrote longer post then seem to have lost it, but wanted to moan about number of big lads I have spotted lately in women's changing rooms at pool. Rule is 8yo and over go in correct sex room.

I tend to say nothing having been verbally attacked before, and also told I W A bit U; but today I did query it with a woman and was told such nonsense as "they won't let them go in the men's as they are too young" (they were 9 and 10) and "nobody uses the men's anyway" (??!!).

Told the staff and they said they would tell the women when she came out; but really, why do people think their 10yo boy must change in the women's? What 10yo boywants to anyway? I am not mad about him standing there as I get changed and if I were a 14yo girl I would probably be very unhappy.

The woman today said "well, all the mums will be washing their kids after the swim" eh?? My 8yo can be a bit hopeless but even he can manage a reasonable shower and dress deal. What is the matter with people?

And breathe. Vent over, thanks for listening

I agree what I said was rude, but all that is being suggested is that supervised men with SN be allowed in the ladies' when accompanied by a female carer.

"Oh get over yourself" is certainly what I would say to DD if she refused to go swimming because a man with SN might glimpse her arm while she got changed.

(Actually I would probably say "Oi get out of that changing room, and back to the car park - don't you know that changing rooms are for wimps!" )

Arm, how about her fanny or tits?

I do NOT want a man looking at my DD's fanny and tits , SN or no bloody SN!

Wrt space, I have never been to a pool where the changing facilities are full, be they open plan or with cubicles. I have occasionally had to wait for a large family cubicle or one with a baby change/seat but even at busy times I have never seen ever single cubicle taken.

I don't know with this stuff everyone always naturally has their own experiences and families that they are looking out for.

I for example am a bit disabled, but not disabled enough to join in with activities specifically for people with disabilities.

As a result there is very little I can do in the way of activities apart from swimming and walking (and I consider myself lucky to be able to do those). But I love dancing and music, and most of my friends do / have done all sorts of dancing things in the evening or aerobics with music at the gym or even yoga and stuff. All of that is closed to me and it feels like a shame. I sometimes think maybe I should start something but I don't have the time and where would you start?

But I wouldn't say that other people's things should be changed to accomodate me, changing in such a way that lots of people wouldn't be able to do them to accomodate one of me.

I get why people say these things, really I do, but at the same time I think that things can be arranged so that everyone has a better chance, not this adversarial "women and girls if you don't like it then don't bother going" when it's the female changing rooms IYSWIM.

It's nothing to do with girls fgs. There are disabled girls as well. In our family I take ds1 swimming as I am a much stronger swimmer than DH who cannot handle ds1 safetly in the pool. My friend with a disabled dd has the problem in reverse (her DH is the swimmer).

Andrew have you heard of the dad? Or is it a mystery to you?

I couldn't care less how equality is achieved but I woukd like my son to have the same access to the pool as other children his age in our council. The easiest way would appear to be unisex changing rooms given the are loads of cubicles.

I can imagine thte outcry on here if suddenly for some random reason all parents were told their children aged 9 and above could only swim for 90 minutes a week on a Sunday morning.

Bollocks should preview I was of course asking Andrew whether he'd heard of the DDA

soupdragon this entire thread is about males in the female changing rooms. These threads are always about males in the female changing rooms.

I agree that girls over a certain age should not be in the mens changing rooms, for the same reasons.

However on this thread it is being said that women and girls must put up with men of any age in the women's changing rooms or stay away. That is pushing women and girls out for the sake of a small number of men.

Why would anybody see her fanny or tits? As I said a while ago, I spent 5 years in a single sex school with weekly swimming lessons, and never a fanny or a tit did I see. I have spent many, many years in mixed company changing into swimsuits and wetsuits on beaches and lakesides, and have never come across anybody who couldn't easily cover up their private bits as they changed (and chatted, and passed round the chocolate biscuits).

Mine is often fullish - you can find space on a bench, and a locker, but families may be pushed to find spaces together. (Men on their own, btw, always move to allow men with a son or son(s) to change together). But if there were cubicles it would become impossible. SoupDragon: you'll have to take my word for it!

God I couldn't change under a towel without flashing, never been able to do that.

You also end up still all wet over if you try to do it like that. You can only dry off the accessible bits and even them not very well. So you end up with that horrible claggy clothes sticking to you thing.

Most people like to dry properly after a swim, not in the way they do when they are aged 10 on the beach IYSWIM.

lesley33

amberleaf - Hidden disabilities that would mean taking a child older than 8 into a same sex changing room would be obvious. The boy I have taken into a ladies changing room when older than 8 was autistic and it was obvious to everyone within 5 minutes of us being in there.

For example, I had to tell him what to do next e.g. try drying your arms or here's your t-shirt - can you lift up your arms.

I disagree.

Not every person with ASD would need verbal prompts, the sectrum is broad and difficulties vary hugely. My son wouldnt need to be told how to dress, but he would need guidance to avoid becoming distracted amongst other things.

I think it also need to be taken into consideration that for many people with SN, swimming isn't just another activity, it is more or less the only physical activity in which they can easily take part.

saintlyjimjams Of course I have heard of the DDA. It is all about what is reasonable.

Rebuilding the entire place is not a reasonable adjustment and neither is expecting adults to accept the presence of older children of the opposite gender while they are in a state of undress!

SardineQueen

I may be missing something -genuinely.
Jimjams has answered you several times saying that now her son is bigger the reality is that she just can't take him swimming anymore.
My son is 14 and that is the case for me too.

So whilst the theoretical indignation is that women are being told to get over it, the truth on this thread at least seems to be that my son and jimjams son are the ones missing out.

Sardine- I think there is a huge difference between being a little bit disabled and so unable to do a few activities you wouldn't do anyway and being severely disabled so pretty much unable to go out. If I stopped to consider other people's reactions to ds1 i wouldn't go out at all. Now whike I wouldn't take him to a posh restaurant (he woukdn't like it anyway) I will on rare occasions take him to a pub and other people can get stuffed if they don't like it. He does actually have as much right as anyone else to be there hard though that concept seems to be to some.

Likes swimming - I come from the angle he should actually have the right to accesss as much swimming time as any other child in our council. Not more, not less, the same. I think it is wrong that he cannot and I believe the council should have provided a solution. I don't care less what the solution is as long as it isn't humiliating to him.

Did you read my post earlier merrymouse?

It is the only thing I can do apart from walking.

Yet it's being said here that I should stay away if I don't like men with SN in the changing rooms with me.

I'm not disabled enough to attend a session especially for disabled people.

So that's that then.

I have said there are cubicles Andrew - there is no need for anyone to be in a state of undress in front of anyone else unless they choose to be.

Reasonable adjustments are allowed to affect the able bodied.

When I was 6/7 I recall being mortally embarassed having to go to the ladies toilet at my mum's work. I don't think it's good for the child having to change in the changing room of the opposite sex.

When I'm standing at the urinals and a father brings his daughter in to use the men's toilet I feel very uncomfortable. Often the girl will stare (they're very young and that's what they do) but why walk your daughter past a number of men with their dicks hanging out?

There has to be a better way, surely? There should be a properly signed age limit for this sort of thing, and private cubicles for those who want them.

As a matter of fact saintly a certain London council which shall be nameless tried to turn over some of the best hours of the weekend to women with children under, I think, 13, and only backed off under the trheat of litigation from this preposterous proposal!

I do not think that the majority of girls and women will be happy with having males with SN of any age in the changing rooms. I understand that people care about their families and want the best for them but I don't understand why they would want to do that at the expense of such a lot of people?

Sardinequeen, it is about boys in the female changing rooms because the OP is a woman! This a broadly FEMALE site so the problem is represented with a huge bias. Switch the sexes round and the same comments apply. Father swimming with an older girl who needs to be supervised? The same arguments apply.

The real problem is not boys in the female changing. The problem is a general lack of appropriate family changing.

It would all be solved if there could just be three changing areas - "Male", "Female" and "Not bothered". (Although as others have said, most public pools are now built with 'changing villages')

Sardine do you understand that even people with learning disabilities have the right to access public spaces? As there are a lot of cubicles in the pool i am talking about I am struggling to understand the problem. I have spent 5 years going to the disabled swimming club and have yet to see one of the learning disabled men naked. I have seen them in their swimming trunks in the changing area and I have seen them in eir clothes in the changing area. Naked? Nope not yet.

And yes wot soapy said

I agree that girls over a certain age should not be in the mens changing room.

However no-one on this thread is calling for adult women with SN to be allowed to change in the mens changing room. If they were then the same problems would apply and it would put a lot of men off going.

While carers are mainly women and parents who are at home with children are mainly women and childminders are mainly women etc etc etc then this is going to mainly be a problem of boys in the female changing rooms.

I would be very happy for society to change so that as many men as women looked after children and adults with SN but I don't see that time coming any time soon, frankly.