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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Fed up with boys in women's changing rooms at pool

632 replies

Clary · 16/08/2011 00:40

Not really AIBU, more may I rant please?

Actually wrote longer post then seem to have lost it, but wanted to moan about number of big lads I have spotted lately in women's changing rooms at pool. Rule is 8yo and over go in correct sex room.

I tend to say nothing having been verbally attacked before, and also told I W A bit U; but today I did query it with a woman and was told such nonsense as "they won't let them go in the men's as they are too young" (they were 9 and 10) and "nobody uses the men's anyway" (??!!).

Told the staff and they said they would tell the women when she came out; but really, why do people think their 10yo boy must change in the women's? What 10yo boywants to anyway? I am not mad about him standing there as I get changed and if I were a 14yo girl I would probably be very unhappy.

The woman today said "well, all the mums will be washing their kids after the swim" eh?? My 8yo can be a bit hopeless but even he can manage a reasonable shower and dress deal. What is the matter with people?

And breathe. Vent over, thanks for listening Smile

OP posts:
SardineQueen · 16/08/2011 19:22

NO pagwatch my point is that lots of girls and women would feel uncomfortable with changing in communal changing rooms with men there which is what two posters have said they want.

I mentioned my situation to counter the idea that the women and girls can just go and do something else instead, as not all of them can. Elderly women, females who are recovering from operations, females who have joint issues often find that swimming is more or less all they can do. That + having men in the changing rooms will mean that lots of women and girls who can't do anything else will not be able to swim.

You are arguing the case for opening female communal changing rooms up to men of all ages with disabilities and if women and girls don't like it... Well I haven't seen a serious suggestion as to what they should do.

Are you seriously suggesting that there are more boys and men with disabilities who can't attend the disabled sessions if their pool has them and for whatever reason there isn't any man available to help them get changed, than women and girls who will feel uncomfortable changing in a communal room with men there?

In this situation there are two communal spaces - one for men and one for women. Open the women's one up to men (for whatever reason) and you will severely impact the amount of women and girls who go. You think this is fair, I don't. I guess we have to agree to disagree.

exoticfruits · 16/08/2011 19:24

And no help at all Namechangeoshame to women who want to swim with DSs.

Can you not start a petition about the swimming Pagwatch-it is an appalling situation.

SardineQueen · 16/08/2011 19:24

exotic but what of all the women and girls who feel uncomfortable with having men in a communal changing room with them?

The fact that the man is disabled isn't going to make much difference to them.

What do you think these women and girls should do?

G1nger · 16/08/2011 19:26

Oh god no, not communal changing rooms...

I'm in the 'club' of those who can only swim to exercise. At 34 weeks pregnant, I'm like a penguin on land and a penguin underwater.... Which is why the whole issue of people having been found smoking crack cocaine in my local swimming pool changing rooms is particularly inconvenient!

SardineQueen · 16/08/2011 19:27

"I don't understand the idea of women only sessions. I was talking about going with DCs of both sexes and I don't want DSs in the ladies, when mine are in the mens. How can women go swimming with DCs if it is a ladies only session? What about the many grandmothers who are taking grandchildren swimming in the holidays? How can they go to women only?"

The families would go swimming at the normal sessions. At normal sessions it would be fine for people to go into the changing rooms of the opposite sex if they were with someone of that sex, irrespective of age.

Then for men and women who were uncomfortable with people of the opposite sex in the communal changing areas, they could go for the single sex sessions.

Where's the problem?

jeee · 16/08/2011 19:29

Given that I don't believe that any swimming pool doesn't have somewhere that could be used as a disabled changing space with minimal expenditure, I think the onus should be on the pool to provide a place where a person with SN can change. This being in addition to the communal changing areas obviously. And I would strongly argue that this would be a 'reasonable' alteration under the terms of the DDA.

Of course, if this was provided the number of people who would abuse it, despite not having any disability, would be massive - sadly.

exoticfruits · 16/08/2011 19:30

Petition for family changing rooms SardineQueen.
While I am against over protective mothers taking boys in the ladies-(entirely lazy parenting, not bothering a, to make sure they can get changed alone and b, not equiping them the knowledge of what to do if they have a problem in the mens) -this thread has pointed out a huge problem for DCs with SN-one that need to be urgently addressed. Personally I would rather have the DS in the ladies and able to swim but as all are not happy with this there has to be facilities-it is appalling that they can't swim.

exoticfruits · 16/08/2011 19:33

I'm sorry SardineQueen but I want to go to mixed sessions but have the ladies only changing-it obviously isn't too much to ask-it is what swimming pools do-they just need to enforce it-with the over protective mothers.

Pagwatch · 16/08/2011 19:33

No. I am Not.
Please don't say "you are arguing the case for opening up....." when I haven't

You can disagree with me but actually lying about what I have said is not really decent debate.

If I believed that he should take him into womens changing then I would do so. But I don't. Because I don't believe that is the right course.

I have asked you why the idea that you cannot swim is intolerable and appalling but the situation where he cannot swim does not bother you at all.

I have asked you how you would feel if the situation were reversed. I have not proposed altering it as you suggest.

SardineQueen · 16/08/2011 19:34

I find it fascinating that on these sort of threads I end up at loggerheads with people with children with disabilities, even though I was a child with disabilities myself and lots of my friends were disabled.

I don't understand the aggression.

I would love it if there was plenty of changing and access for everyone. i understand that people love their children and want the best for them and things are very difficult. I think it's great that people fight for better facilities and access and inclusion and a different attitude in society, and from the government and all the rest of it. But I don't agree that access for one person should be made at the loss of access for say 100x that number. I can't agree with that.

exoticfruits · 16/08/2011 19:34

It is very lucky that most pools have unisex cubicles these days-obviously a wise decision.

Pagwatch · 16/08/2011 19:36

Arf at I don't understand the aggression.

Are we back to empathy again - you end up at loggerheads with lots of people with dc with disabilities.

Hmm . Wonder what the consistent factor is there?

SardineQueen · 16/08/2011 19:39

And adults exoticfruits not just children.

xposts pagwatch I don't see what you want from me.

I have suggested women only sessions so that people can have mixed changing.

I find it interesting that you are challenging me on why it is OK that I can swim and not your son. When upthread someone with a DC with SN said that it was fine that her son could swim and not me.

And my point is that it's not just me. For males with disabilities to go into the women's changing room would stop lots of women and girls swimming. So it's not a me or him situation. It's a me & a whole load of other people or him situation.

If you make it so that men with disabilities can use the female communal changing areas then that will prevent a lot of women and girls swimming. More than the men who will benefit. Because there are more people without disabilities this severe than with them. And it would prevent many women and girls with disabilities from going swimming themselves.

SardineQueen · 16/08/2011 19:44

No I end up at loggerheads with some people on MN sometimes.

The perspective of a parent of a child with disabilities, and the views of a person who was a child with disabilities, appear to be incompatible a surprising amount of the time.

I would never have asked that a whole tranche of people move aside so that I could do something. It's a question of numbers.

Pagwatch · 16/08/2011 19:45

Are you responding to me with something someone else said agai

Is that you best response? Rather than acknowledging that I have said consistently that you should be able to swim without any difficulty. And that I stop my son swimming in order that you and other women don't feel uncomfortable.
Is that inconveniently not depriving you of something to feel aggrieved about. Like all those unreasonable parents of disabled kids arguing with you in an uppity way.

I don't want anything from you. I would not ask for anything you are clearly so ill equipped to provide.

SardineQueen · 16/08/2011 19:46

You say that I find it inconceivable that I would not be able to participate in something (swimming).

The fact is that I already conceive of that quite readily, given that I can't participate in most things.

So what's your point?

SardineQueen · 16/08/2011 19:50

Do you want the right for women to take their male relatives with disabilities into communal changing areas? Or not?

I don't know what you are getting at. Apart from getting me to say "oh I have examined my conscience and I see I was suggesting that I am more important than your son how awful I am". I have examined my conscience thanks and I still come away thinking that it is more important that women and girls have access to communal changing areas without older boys and adult men present. 50 women and girls are more important than one male. And vice versa, you can't have older girls and women changing in communal men's changing rooms. I really don't see that that is such a ludicrous stance.

Pagwatch · 16/08/2011 19:52

My point is that you have repeated throughout the thread that is is staggering and incomprehensible to you that you should be deprived of swimming to meet the needs of someone else who cannot access the pool.

You have not expressed any concern, amazement or lack of ability to comprehend that that is the situation my son is in.

So my son not being able to swim is just one of those things.
Your not being able to swim would be so awful you want people to retract even having suggested it.

I think both situations would be awful.

I don't understand how you think one is awful and one is just the way things are.

SardineQueen · 16/08/2011 19:53

Do you know I said earlier that I thought this was a non argument as most people want accessible suitable changing facilities for all. Yet still you came back in and went for me. I tried to calm it all down and wasn't allowed to. You can't blame me for continuing to fight an idea that I think is just very wrong.

SardineQueen · 16/08/2011 19:58

NO I was told that it didn't matter if I couldn't go swimming if it meant someone's son could.

So that's an exact equivalent.

My point is that if the idea that those two posters had of allowing men with disabilities into the female communal changing area would have a huge effect on the number of women and girls swimming there.

That is not an exact equivalent. It is one person vs many more people.

On top of that I have said that I would be happy for the communal changing rooms to be mixed, and have mens and womens only times for those people who were not comfortable with that. This appears to be completely overlooked.

In short I have said I want everybody to be able to swim. If there is not enough space for cubicles I have suggested that the people with DCs with SN of teh opposite sex are able to swim the majority of the time with sessions for men only and women only for those who didn't like it.

What on earth is wrong with that? I am suggesting limiting my access enormously so that your son can go loads. And still you tell me I'm an awful person? For crying out loud.

Pagwatch · 16/08/2011 20:01

So you are just going to keep telling me what other people have said...

I haven't told you you are an awful person.

SardineQueen · 16/08/2011 20:02

You said that I lacked empathy and am aggressive.

I think that adds up to an awful person.

SardineQueen · 16/08/2011 20:05

The reason I am not surprised at your son's lack of access is because for people with disabilities lack of access is just an everyday normal thing.

Some of them are outrageous, some of them would be nice to improve, and some of them just aren't going to change no matter what and that's just how it is.

The changing rooms thing is an outrageous one, IMO, in this day and age. But I will not accept the suggestion earlier as to my mind it is just wrong.

SardineQueen · 16/08/2011 20:06

There are plenty of ways of doing this without meaning that old ladies with arthritis feel they have to give up their swimming.

saintlyjimjams · 16/08/2011 20:09

sardine I did not say that my son should swim forcing you to stop. I said the council should provide a solution - I'm of the opinion it's not that difficult to provide a solution that suits all if people actually stop to ask what is needed and think a little bit about ways that could be achieved. It would certainly be very simple in my local poo, with cubicles and open areas that are separate from each other. I've already said I don't take him so I'm hardly riding roughshod over your access.