Fed up with boys in women's changing rooms at pool

[Clary]

Not really AIBU, more may I rant please?

Actually wrote longer post then seem to have lost it, but wanted to moan about number of big lads I have spotted lately in women's changing rooms at pool. Rule is 8yo and over go in correct sex room.

I tend to say nothing having been verbally attacked before, and also told I W A bit U; but today I did query it with a woman and was told such nonsense as "they won't let them go in the men's as they are too young" (they were 9 and 10) and "nobody uses the men's anyway" (??!!).

Told the staff and they said they would tell the women when she came out; but really, why do people think their 10yo boy must change in the women's? What 10yo boywants to anyway? I am not mad about him standing there as I get changed and if I were a 14yo girl I would probably be very unhappy.

The woman today said "well, all the mums will be washing their kids after the swim" eh?? My 8yo can be a bit hopeless but even he can manage a reasonable shower and dress deal. What is the matter with people?

And breathe. Vent over, thanks for listening

I used to volunteer through Barnardo's by taking a disabled child every week to a children's club. They wouldn't take him unless there was an extra person responsible for him. So having a volunteer to take him into the changing room and help him isn't outside the possibilities.

"small minority within the larger group of women who need access to single sex changing areas"

I disagree strongly. Most women I think would not be happy to change in a communal changing room with older boys/men whether they have SN or not. Do you really think most women would be happy to change in front of men they don't know?

I said the timing could be varied!

Oh for goodness sake Sardine, I don't want to change my son in front of you (or any other woman come to that).

Anyway have just had a look at the plans for the new pool opening here next year. It's all mixed changing villages (hoorah) and there are going to be changing stations for those with complex and multiple disabilities. That will probably upset a few.

So problem solved here as of next year.

Milly I don't see much attempt to find a solution for people such as my son other than to say I should be grateful he gets a whole 90 minutes to access a pool each week.

I didn' quote you sardine, i was talking about the impression I received from your postings.

and anyway I have zero problem with disabled children of any age or gender in any changing room because there aren't very many of them! Which is why I think it's a non issue and irrelevant to this thread. Children with SN were not the subject of discussion, a few parents have got up in arms and made their children the subject of the discussion.

I seriously doubt there are many women out there who would mind a child in genuine difficulty of any age changing with them. But the point of the thread was that you very often see 9 and 10 year old boys in the changing rooms. Statistically, very few of these will have any need to be there.

lesley - volunteers really don't work with children who have needs as significant as my son's. He needs to be properly supported by a SS care package, not relying on volunteers.

If you fiddle about with the time each week then you really have no chance to employ the carer of the same sex that you need to take into separate changing room manic.

saintly - People have suggested a number of solutions that you have rejected.

manic - lots of people have said they don't want learning disabled men/children in their changing room. Gawd knows what they'd do if they HAD a disabled child then because the only time they could access the pool would be with a mixed changing room.

MillyR, AFAIK swimming pools have traditionally had separate areas for men and women to change in. Are you saying that there used to be communal mixed sex changing areas with no cubicles?

Changing villages?!

What happened to changing rooms? Or am I being a bit dense?

saintly - As a volunteer I have worked with children with very complex needs - autistic with a variety of physical disabilities. Its your right not to use volunteers, but some volunteers are highly skilled and many have or are still doing paid work with children with disabilities.

Which solutions lesley?

I've had (1) Volunteers- doesn't work with children with my son's level of need (believe me we have tried)

I said (2) male carer, but since the whole point is it's a shared activity for us that's not great

(3) er??? can't think of any more except be grateful you have 90 minutes.

Changing villages are great and will be here from next year. Presumably other pools as they are built will do the same.

Lesley, I think there is a difference between being happy about something and having a very strong need. Most women, if they turned up at a pool and found that themselves of their 13 year old daughter was being expected to change in front of a man would make other arrangements - waiting outside until the man had finished getting changed and so on.

This is clearly different to somebody who is going to find the idea that at any point, a man or older boys might walk into the changing room and is going to be traumatised by that.

I think the fact that some people on here know people with learning disabilities who have no interest in women's bodies really solves the issue. There are people with learning disabilities who will show an obvious interest and comment on people's naked bodies, and there are also people with learning disabilities who will be uncomfortable getting changed in front of people of the opposite sex. So we need a solution that is going to take everybody's needs into account, and is based on some idea that any woman who cares is over-reacting or that all people with learning disabilities are sexless.

Sorry, that third paragraph should have said doesn't solve the issue.

lesley - I have used a volunteer. It was very difficult to find any and the one we had was completely unsuitable. She certainly couldn't be left to look after my son by herself.

Dum changing villages seems to be the modern way to say 'mixed changing areas' so the bits where you all much into together.

Halycon, no I'm saying the opposite. I am saying that we have single sex changing and mixed sex changing room should be built in addition to that not instead of it.

Yes Milly, I agree - I was merely trying to explain that my son is actually the vulnerable one particularly as he hasn't the slightest interest in looking at a body - the people needing the care on this thread have been treated as is they're going to be setting out to make people uncomfortable. He certainly wouldn't comment on anyone's body as he can't talk.

Mixed changing villages (I agree it's a naff way of saying it) such as the ones being built at our new pool are a perfect solution.

" learning disabled men"

I was using disabled/SN to encompass all disabilities that might mean people needed assistance with changing, not just people with learning disabilities.

I'm not sure where that has come from.

Pagwatch the exercise I can do is walking or swimming. I cannot access "normal" stuff and am not "disabled" enough to go for things specifically for disabled people. I said that if I were uncomfortable with men with SN in my communal changing room then that would mean I was left with walking only. Apparently this is fine as my right to go swimming and use a female changing room and expect there just to be females in it is superceded by the right of a person with disabilities to go swimming whether or not there are other activities that they can do.

So the person who got a "shrug" was me.

Now I don't mind TBH and if they made it certain female only sessions at the pool and the rest of the time it was mixed in the changing rooms and so on then that would be fine. If one didn't match my times then I'd look for another one.

I just find this confrontational "if you don't like adult men in a communal changing room then it's your problem" attitude really difficult to comprehend.

Manic
I haven't got up in arms and made my child the subject of anything.
All my initial posts were about nt children.

Threads move on and conversation evolves.

I suspect most people agree that dc should change in their correct changing room if they are able so that debate tailed off leaving this one.

And fwiw my main irritation is the suggestion that a woman or girl being uncomfortable in a changing room is terrible in comparison to a 14 year old boy being unable to swim at all which seems to be tough shit.

Ideally neither should happen. People should be comfortable and able to access swimming.
But the idea that 90 min available per week to my son because he has sn is pretty generous is annoying unless 90 per week is also acceptable to average kids. I suspect most parents would be furious.

I can't imagine that men out there are queuing up to volunteer to help vulnerable older boys get changed, given the current paranoia regarding men and children.

The way this is all going they will have to fill in all the pools to create the space for all these multi- segregated changing village facilities.

You didn't get a shrug sardine.

I don't try and take my son in female changing rooms and have not since I sensed any awkwardness from women/girls using them.

So I have changed what I do to respect your needs.

Not really a shrug

But Milly, women never had to campaign for separate changing areas in the first place as far as I'm aware. Surely a changing village with plenty of cubicles caters for everybody doesn't it? It means everybody can change in privacy, whatever their situation.

saintly

volunteers
male carer/friend
getting him out the pool and wrapping him in dressing gown and then taking him home to get changed there.
changing in the disabled toilet

I know you have given good reasons as to why you have rejected these. But I don't think it is fair to castigate people for not suggesting solutions when they have done so.

My two DD's would not have gone swimming if the ladies changing room could possibly be used by older boys and men. Its not a case of being traumatised. It is a case of being embarassed.

And I too wish these threads didn't end up being dominated with parents of children with SN. It is clear from some early comments that some mums do take children into ladies communal changing rooms when they are 8,9 and 10 because of fear of paedophiles. That is totally U.