Fed up with boys in women's changing rooms at pool

[Clary]

Not really AIBU, more may I rant please?

Actually wrote longer post then seem to have lost it, but wanted to moan about number of big lads I have spotted lately in women's changing rooms at pool. Rule is 8yo and over go in correct sex room.

I tend to say nothing having been verbally attacked before, and also told I W A bit U; but today I did query it with a woman and was told such nonsense as "they won't let them go in the men's as they are too young" (they were 9 and 10) and "nobody uses the men's anyway" (??!!).

Told the staff and they said they would tell the women when she came out; but really, why do people think their 10yo boy must change in the women's? What 10yo boywants to anyway? I am not mad about him standing there as I get changed and if I were a 14yo girl I would probably be very unhappy.

The woman today said "well, all the mums will be washing their kids after the swim" eh?? My 8yo can be a bit hopeless but even he can manage a reasonable shower and dress deal. What is the matter with people?

And breathe. Vent over, thanks for listening

If it is of any comfort sardine I have been perplexed why you have been arguing vociferously about how awful it would be that theoretical harm could be done to women and girls if adult men with sn were allowed in their changing rooms when I could not see anyone, anywhere arguing the case for that.

It jarred slightly with your at my son not being able to swim.

But maybe you did not intend to convey that

They are not going to just redesign changing facilities off their own backs clearly.

Sardinequeen in light of that what exactly should people like me and saintly do?

I know what the ideal situation is but thats not happening so what should we do?

Like saintly im rather taxed from fighting for the daily stuff for my son so any chance you and others on here could point your greivances in the direction of someone who can provide an alternative?

In the meantime a bit of compassion for us parents of children with SN who really have no choice at all wouldnt go amiss.

And Lesley my point is that is not a solution. It is what is happening but limiting swimming opportunities to those with disabilities is not an acceptable solution. I'm surprised so many think it is. I really don't think it would be accepted under the dda either if challenged. Maybe someone somewhere will do it.

All those who think it's acceptable - would you find it acceptable to be told suddenly out of the blue that now your child us 8 they cannot swim through no fault of their own (remember my son shows no interest in bodies - fire exit signs? Yes, bodies, nope) except for 90 minutes on a Sunday and are banned from the pool from now on. If you think that's fine no problem. If you think that's not acceptable for your child then why is it okay for mine?

If a council has not provided adequate services for people with disabilities to get changed with the help of their carers of the opposite sex, shouldn't that issue be raised with the council, rather than try to take facilities off other minority groups that have already argued for and established their own facilities?

Well if I kicked off wah wah poor me I can't get changed near a learning disabled man I'll be damaged then my son would lose the 90 minutes of swimming he does get! so I don't really have that luxury.

Which minority groups milly?

saintly - No I know its not great for you to be only able to take your DS swimming for 90 minutes a week.

Although technically nobody is saying your DS can't swim. He can swim and he can get chnaged in men's changing rooms if a man takes him swimming. Perhaps linking up with volunteers who could take your DS into men's changing rooms might be the way forward?

My point is that I don't think a reasonable solution is to make girls and women share their communal changing room with SN males of any age.

saintly - nobody is saying wah wah, poor me! Its quite disparaging of other people to post this. You are asking for people to understand your struggles, but you are pretty dismissive of anyone who doesn't agree with you.

My solution would be that they increased the number of sessions for disabled people, but warned people that during these times they might come across people of the opposite sex with their carers in the changing rooms. 90 minute's access a week is rubbish. 90 minutes a day might be approaching reasonable.

It's not just about the privacy of the people getting dry/showered/dressed - but also the dignity of the older child/adult with sn in the wrong sex changing room.

I like the idea of disabled sessions where others can go, but are told that there will probably be opposite sex teenagers or adults with SN in changing rooms is a good idea. Although 90 minutes a day during the week would take up most of the available swimming time in many pools - once you factor in school use during the day, swimming club use and water classes such as aqua aerobics, lots of pools where I live don't actually have much open sessions during the week.

I agree Sandalwood. I think this gets lost sometimes.

Women are a minority JimJams. We are the only group who form a numerical majority but are in minority position in terms of economic and political structure.

I'm aware that within that group - women, there are the issues of carers (who are mostly women); some carers will not be able to take somebody else swimming if changing rules are single sex, and some carers will not be able to take somebody else swimming if changing rooms are not single sex. The issues of women who either due to their culture, their religion, or their childhood or adult experiences of men will be very uncomfortable changing in front of men or older boys, and so will not just not go swimming if those facilities are no longer available.

I think it is awful if a mother cannot take her disabled son swimming because mixed facilities are not available. I also think it is awful if a mother can't take her young daughter who has been the victim of long term sexual abuse swimming because single sex facilities have been removed.

So I can't agree with one group trying to get more rights at the expense of another. Petition councils to have mixed sex communal changing areas put in place in addition to single sex ones, but don't try and take other people's facilities off them.

Volunteers??? Excuse me while I roll on the floor laughing. SS sending a male carer (and no I don't want direct payments to try and find a male carer thanks) might be a solution. But as they won't pay to keep him safe on a daily basis I suspect they'll struggle with the concept of a leisure activity. (although legally they are meant to provide that - perhaps if they have to pay for enough of us they'll change the swimming arrangements). I actually like swimming with my son - seems a bit mad to have to pay a carer to do an activity we enjoy together.

I prefer merry mouses suggestion. 90 minutes a day (at a sensible time not silly inaccessible time) when the changing rooms might be mixed - with a request that carers and use the cubicles. The other however many hours per day can be strong segregation.

Honestly, I am a bit confused about who the minorities are who would loose swimming access if Jimjam's access to the pool were increased? Aqua aerobics?

I also think that while it might not be possible to convert all single sexed changing rooms to unisex, most have room for a few cubicles.

Why do so many posts about what children should or shouldn't do/have/say etc end up focusing on those with SN?

The OP was about older children in changing rooms of the wrong gender. 9 times out of 10 or more those children are going to be regular, molly coddled kids who SHOULD NOT BE THERE.

Obviously there are going to be RARE exceptions when a child with a specific need needs to be with their parent. But they are rare and they are not the subject of the rant.

Merrymouse, I don't see an issue with increasing access as long as there are still times when single sex changing facilities are available. But there is no need for people to mock other people's need for single sex facilities as some kind of 'poor me' attitude. Both groups have genuine needs.

90 minutes a week swimming is quite a lot too! It wouldn;t occur to me to take mine so often. Certainly doesn't seem like minimal provision. Very reasonable. Perhaps they could vary the timing a bit but I don't see a need to increase it.

I think comparing women to people with learning disabilities as a minority group is slightly missing the point. But i've had that discussion on here before and know it's pretty pointless.

There are plenty of pools without dedicated single sex facilities where people manage to change in privacy, unfortunately just none in our area.

Manicinsomniac I think people's perceptions of how many SN children are affected by things like changing room access are skewed because lack of access means they're not using the changng rooms so they aren't as visible as they should be.

Also, you can't judge a child's level of ability - physical or neurological by looking at them.

Manic
You do get that you don't chose which 90 mins don't you?

So if the session was on a night when I can't get him there - which is not beyond the bounds of possibility- he would miss out.
If they said " women and girls over 8 can only swim Tuesday between 4.30 and 6.00" would you say " gosh, that is quite a lot really". Would most mums and dads say " yes that is quite a lot of provision for girls really. After all they are girls"

pagwatch where did I shrug at your son not being able to go swimming?

I was told that if I wasn't comfortable going swimming with adult males in the communal changing rooms then it doesn't matter as apparently I "probably wouldn't do activities (swimming) anyway". I mean, what's that all about?

Er manic - my other two children could swim at some time every day if they wanted. Ds1 can swim on Sunday mornings. Full stop. As I said luckily we're heathens.

I mean given a choice between me not being able to go swimming and men with SN not being able to go swimming, the men with SN "won", they won the right to the changing room over me IYSWIM.

The message is quite clear.

I don't think we are comparing whole groups JimJams; what would be the point of that? I think we are comparing a small minority within the larger group of women who need access to single sex changing areas and a small minority with the larger group of people with learning disabilities who need access to mixed sex changing rooms. We are hopefully looking at both groups and thinking about how their needs can be met without dismissing either group with either shrugs or as having a 'poor me' attitude.