Fed up with boys in women's changing rooms at pool

[Clary]

Not really AIBU, more may I rant please?

Actually wrote longer post then seem to have lost it, but wanted to moan about number of big lads I have spotted lately in women's changing rooms at pool. Rule is 8yo and over go in correct sex room.

I tend to say nothing having been verbally attacked before, and also told I W A bit U; but today I did query it with a woman and was told such nonsense as "they won't let them go in the men's as they are too young" (they were 9 and 10) and "nobody uses the men's anyway" (??!!).

Told the staff and they said they would tell the women when she came out; but really, why do people think their 10yo boy must change in the women's? What 10yo boywants to anyway? I am not mad about him standing there as I get changed and if I were a 14yo girl I would probably be very unhappy.

The woman today said "well, all the mums will be washing their kids after the swim" eh?? My 8yo can be a bit hopeless but even he can manage a reasonable shower and dress deal. What is the matter with people?

And breathe. Vent over, thanks for listening

However I know that the vast majority of people on this thread are not advocating men all over the women's areas (!) I just read that and got a bit steamed up.

Ideally there would be plenty of clean, spacious facilites for all. With diving boards as well please, and deep ends (why did they take all the fun away???!).

halcyondays - Where I live all of the pools are communal same sex changing rooms. But the pools are all pretty old - so I don't know if people live somewhere with newer pools i.e. new in this case means being built in last 30 years. A lot of the pools in my city, although not all, are on sites where there is no room for expansion - unless you knock houses/shops down.

So where I live the council run pools will continue to have communal changing areas. And there isn't the money around to build new changing facilities anyway. We do have private pools with mainly cubicles, if you can afford to join.

TBH I think there are more basic services that are being cut, that I think are more important to campaign on. For example, the reduction in social care being provided to help elderly people stay in their own homes; day centres for severely disabled people, etc. I would rather my local council spent its very limited money in these areas.

And I still think if adult woman would not be happy to change in front of adult men they don't know; then we shouldn't expect our DDs to have to change in front of boys aged 9, 10 and over.

Sardine well someone must be put off my cubicles for everyone as that's what we have in our local pool. Male Cubicles and female cubicles. There are wave it all about open access areas (separate) as well in both make and female sides but they are separate and we could enter the pool without going near them- in fact we do.

If they knocked down the wall between the two sides, made the whole lot mixed with toilets at one end for ladies and toilets at other end for men it would solve the problem and cost about 2p. They won't though. Or they coukdn't change the rules to people over 8 in the wrong sex changing area to use cubicles only please. Simple.

Could - iPad.

I don't know how to respond to that saintly as it's not my view. I didn't design your swimming pool. I have not been saying anything about the situation with your swimming pool. I've been talking about communal changing areas all the way through.

I mean, I don;t know why you've addressed that to me. I haven't seen anyone on the thread say they have a problem with cubicles, only communal areas. I can't second-guess what reasons these "people" have for not rearranging your swimming pool when they aren't here saying anything.

No you have said that cubicles are not a problem. I am saying they ARE still a problem as I'm the one with three boys at home who can't swim this week (obviously if ds1 can't go they can't either).

I have said that I personally would not have a problem with anyone changing in cubicles as no-ones privacy is compromised.

I am not sure what you want from me.

My argument on this thread is with the idea that males with SN of any age should be allowed to change in communal female changing rooms. I think this is wrong.

You seem to be trying to argue with me about something completely unrelated and I don't really understand why.

No-one on this thread that I can see has said they mind males with SN changing in cubicles.

You are tying to get me to defend a position that I, nor anyone else as far as I can see, has taken?

Thinking wistfully of Norwegian changing rooms where everyone gets changed in one big room, complete with a mixed-sex naked sauna, and people behave just fine. Though there was usually a couple cubicles for people with toddlers they needed to keep from running away.

FWIW I have no problem with cubicles as long as they have a seat and space to move unbending limbs - pool near my old house had stools nicked and then I got abuse shouted at me for using the disabled cubicles. Current pool has plenty of larger cubicles all with benches so is fine.

I mean, it sounds like it would be a good idea to rearrange things at your pool.

I don;t know why they don't do it. Money probably. You could ask them maybe.

SardineQueen: that there are more women than men looking after children and SN adults is true but of limited relevance. It is not about women and men; it is about individuals, some of whom are male and some of whom are female, and their privacy.

If a girl over a certain age ? and the powers that be who run a pool have to choose that age ? comes into the male changing room of my pool (where there are no cubicles and there is no room for cubicles), that is an unacceptable invasion of my privacy. If an adult woman looking after an SN person (regardless of that person's age and sex) does so that is an even worse breach of my privacy.

The same applies in reverse to a male in the female changing rooms; his presence is an affront to every individual woman there.

And that is why the rules must be applied to everyone regardless of gender and regardless of SN.

What those rules are may be affected by the layout of the changing rooms; if there are cubicles, especially larger ones, that obviously makes it easier. But that does not mean that councils and clubs must provide them where there is no space, and even if there is they must consider the cost.

And hours reserved in a discriminatory way will be unpopular with members of clubs (who are after all paying for it) and probably illegal.

notcitrus - In Britain people are brought up not to change in front of opposite sex strangers.

Well someone must be taking it somewhere because in the real world, despite both the male and female changing rooms being awash with cubicles people who need an opposite sex carer are still unable to swim at my pool except for 90 mins a week.

I don't want anything from you other than for you to stop telling me it's not a problem when it is happening at mine (and presumably other) pools.

Andrew I have said upthread about 4 times that it is exactly the same the other way around and many men would be uncomfortable with older females being in the changing rooms.

This thread however is about boys and men in the womens changing rooms, and while it is the case that the majority of childcare and caring for people with SN is done by women, the problem will mostly arise this way around.

Completely agree with saintly

I am not telling you that it is not a problem I don't know where you have got that from.

All along I have been saying that I do not think it is on for older boys and men to be in women's communal changing rooms, irrespective of SN, and you have been arguing with me at random cross-purposes. Many people have had to point out to you that this thread is not about your pool it is about the pool in the OP which has communal changing areas and that is what people are discussing.

All along I have been saying that I have no problem with men using cubicles in changing areas how you have interpreted that to mean that In my opinion no people who have swimming pools with cubicles have any problems is completely beyond me.

sc13 why?

Why do you think that SN males of any age should be allowed to change in communal changing rooms, as saintly posted earlier.

I think she has since said that she was talking about cubicles but everyone else was talking about communal changing rooms. Are you talking about communal changing rooms or cubicles?

But no-one is arguing that we want our children in communal changing rooms. As I've said repeatedly I just want the same access to the pool as everyone else. (In any pool). I've repeatedly brought up the pool we use as a way to demonstrate that having cubicles doesn't, in the real world, solve the access problem. I cant work out why as really it's ridiculous to complain about a situation where no body exposure is necessary (but presumably there have been complaints - the letter we received when the public started to be allowed in straight after disabled swimming seemed to suggest that as it said mixed changing finished on the dot).

As soupy has said a number of times we are arguing for accessible changing rooms for all, not boys being more important than girls or girls being more important than boys). Some on this thread seem to think it doesn't matter whether they exist or not as who cares if it excludes some people at least some nice people in the council (ha ha) try to address the problem by giving the disableds a whole hour and half to themselves each week.

I think I should move to Scandinavia or Finland.

Sardine why do you think I want my vulnerable 12 year old severely disabled son exposed to a bunch of teenage girls? I don't. I have said that we should have the same access to swimming as everyone else. If communal changing rooms causing people a problem than that should be sorted.

I did talk about a pool we used with communal changing rooms. We were told we could use the disabled toilet. Which was fine as a space, except that it was often occupied. If you have to ask why that is a problem then you have limited understanding of severe autism. I always thought it was a stupid solution anyway as we still had to walk past the open communal bit to get into the pool.

So anyway that doesn't work, he's too strong for me to hold outside an occupied room now.

saintly upthread you said that you thought your son should be able to go into changing rooms at any age as he has zero interest in female bodies. At the time everyone was talking about communal changing rooms. You had also just mentioned that you were happy to get changed in front of 55yo men with SN and did so regularly.

That was what I took issue to, that and another poster who said that males with SN should be allowed to change in with women whatever the age.

You have since explained that you were talking about cubicles (I don;t know why, as it's not what anyone else was talking about, and you certainly didn't make it clear) and have been intent on arguing with me ever since.

So if what you are saying is that you don't think that older boys and men should be in communal womens changing rooms then that's great. Neither do I. So I'm not sure why you have been intent on arguing with me throughout the whole thread.

I think the point is that some posters, including myself, recognise that lots of pools do have only communal changing rooms and that is likely to remain the case. As I have already said my council are trying to close swimming pools - all of which have fairly small communal changing rooms. They could not be rebuilt to hold enough cubicles or to have a mixture of communal and cubicles. There isn't the space.

Also many of them are on sites where there is no room for expansionw ithout knocking down shops and houses.

So what do we do in the meantime? My solution is that in the meantime people follow the rules and recognise that older children/teenagers/adults with SN will have to either go with an adult of the same sex or use the sessions specifically provided for severly disabled people.

"If you have to ask why that is a problem then you have limited understanding of severe autism. "

Where have I asked why this is a problem? Where?

You are putting all this stuff onto me that I have simply not posted anywhere.

You and another poster seemed to be saying that males with SN of all ages should be allowed in communal womens changing rooms. I said that I disagreed with that. That is all I have been saying for this entire thread. Why are you so intent to have a fight about all this stuff that I absolutely have not said anywhere?

I agree with lesley who has put it much more calmly than me!